Fed appeals court panel says most Obamacare subsidies illegal

wrong that is the the leftist lie. The left pretends the democrats had to make concession to republicans...
but remember when they passed it Pelosi said you have to read it to know whats in it.

There had not need to make concession to republicans... no republican voted for it. you need to google it.
I already presented you the link to the front line series which showed how they whored themselves out... but here it is again.

the deals they made were with democrats... and the deals were frequently to get the democrats to not hold out for single payer.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obamasdeal/view/












They passed it because of the concessions they made.

This is not ancient history. There must be a precis somewhere on Google.
 
wrong that is the the leftist lie. The left pretends the democrats had to make concession to republicans...

I didn't say they made concessions to Repubs. I said only that they made concessions, such as to Baucus, whom I mentioned.

Dial down the sensitivity.
 
you said they did not have the votes
that implies they had to compromise with republicans.

if you watched the frontline piece you would see baucus was one of the pimps with the insurance companies. he was one of the architects Obama put in charge.

I am sensitive to this cause all the leftists on et have tried to blame obamacare on everyone but Obama pelosi and reid.


I didn't say they made concessions to Repubs. I said only that they made concessions, such as to Baucus, whom I mentioned.

Dial down the sensitivity.
 
you said they did not have the votes
that implies they had to compromise with republicans.

if you watched the frontline piece you would see baucus was one of the pimps with the insurance companies. he was one of the architects Obama put in charge.

I am sensitive to this cause all the leftists on et have tried to blame obamacare on everyone but Obama pelosi and reid.

It doesn't imply anything unless one is looking for subtext. I had already said that Baucus was one of the chief reasons why single payer was abandoned. But I haven't dwelled on it. What's done is done.
 
Great article on obamacare

‘He who controls the past controls the future,” observed George Orwell. “He who controls the present controls the past.” This, in one pithy, symmetrical little maxim, has been the story of Obamacare from its conception to the present day.

Since its official launch, in October of 2013, the architects and salesmen of our ill-conceived phalanx of reforms have been engaged in some of the most pronounced historical revisionism of the modern era — truth being subjugated to expedience; idealism being repackaged in the pathetic language of good intentions; and the past being tweaked at every tricky stage. Thus has the ironclad promise that insurance premiums would decrease for all people given way to scoffing admissions that “of course” some people’s premiums would increase. Thus has the quixotic assurance that there would be no winners and losers been transmuted into the defensive insistence that there are no perfect plans but that this one was “worth it overall.” Thus has a favored vow that anybody who “liked” their existing plan would be able to “keep it” replaced with the patronizing mantra that people just don’t know what’s good for them — and need in consequence to be told what they may buy. Thus has the claim of “universal health insurance” been quickly forgotten, a series of unseemly statistical victory dances being offered in lieu.

And thus — now that it looks as if the executive’s attempt to circumvent the rules will meet meaningful resistance in the courts — has the scheme’s legally established architecture been reimagined as a “typo” or a “mistake” or a “drafting error,” and the damning confirmations of the law’s mastermind rewritten as the feverish claims of a churlish right-wing coup.
Today, we are witnessing the fall from grace of the progressive health-care wonk, Jonathan Gruber, a primary architect of Obamacare who is renouncing his previous testimony with all the giddy enthusiasm of a veteran clerk in the Khrushchev administration. Once upon a time, Gruber was admirably honest on the subject of how his creation worked, and what it did and did not permit the federal government to achieve. On a tour of the country in 2012, Gruber urged recalcitrant states to set up their own health-insurance exchanges, explaining in no uncertain terms the consequences of their declining to do so. A video unearthed by the Competitive Enterprise Institute shows Gruber not merely laying out how the law works, but why it works as it does. “What’s important to remember politically about” Obamacare, Gruber explains, in what he happily refers to as a “verifiable, objective” presentation, “is if you’re a state and you don’t set up an exchange, that means your citizens don’t get their tax credits.” Why not? Because, while the federal government is permitted to establish an exchange per se, it is not permitted to offer any tax subsidies through it. “The law,” Gruber records flatly, “says if the states don’t provide [the exchanges], the federal backstop will. The federal government has been sort of slow in putting out its backstop, I think partly because they want to sort of squeeze the states to do it.” This, Gruber contended, was a “blatant enough political reality,” and one that he hoped would be enough for states to “get their act together and recognize there are billions of dollars at stake here in setting up these exchanges” — billions of dollars, he went to great lengths to clarify, that would not be available through a federal exchange. No state exchange, he explained, no money. Refuse to establish one, and “your citizens still pay the taxes that support this bill.” “So, he concluded, “you’re essentially saying to your citizens, you’re going to pay all the taxes to help all the other states in the country.” One month earlier, Gruber had made precisely the same point in prepared remarks, describing states not setting up exchanges as the “ultimate threat,” and hoping aloud that “people understand that, gee, if your governor doesn’t set up an exchange, you’re losing hundreds of millions of dollars of tax credits to be delivered to your citizens.” These clear, unequivocal, straightforward, uncomplex, honest adumbrations of the matter could have come straight out of the plantiff’s case in Halbig v. Burwell, the court case that raised the issue this week. Indeed, as Cato’s Michael Cannon says today, he couldn’t have put them better himself.

Fast forward a year or so, though, and you will see Gruber radically change his tune. In an interview with Mother Jones, conducted in early 2013, Gruber claimed that the very same “interpretation” (read: plain meaning) that he had offered in January of 2012 was — now that it was being offered by opponents of the law — “screwy,” “nutty,” “stupid,” and “desperate,” representing an approach that only fierce partisans could consider to be intellectually serious. What could possibly have happened in the interim to have changed his mind? A review of the relevant history reveals a number of things: 1) The majority of states had refused to play ball and set up exchanges, rejecting Gruber’s advice and confounding an administration in Washington that had expected them to bluster and gripe a little and then to acquiesce in full; 2) the IRS had responded to that lack of interest by issuing an illegal, ultra vires rule that promised subsidies for the federal exchanges, despite their being no grounds for this in the statute; and 3) most worrying of all, the law’s opponents had noticed, Jonathan Adler and Michael Cannon having published a paper that first highlighted the problem, and then informed a challenge in court. Reeling, politics took over and Gruber elected to rewrite history. Today, he went for the full reversal. “I honestly don’t remember why I said that,” he told The New Republic. “I was speaking off-the-cuff.”

From “verifiable” and “objective” prepared remarks to “off the cuff,” “screwy,” and “desperate” in just two and a half years? We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Those of us who have been critical of Obamacare’s endless textual invitations to leave the details of national policy up “the secretary” have often referred to the law as an “enabling act” — as a perilous general warrant that transfers the prerogatives of Congress to the executive branch and substitutes for the codified work of citizen-approved legislators the transient whims of a haughty mandarin class. Little did we know just how appropriate our critique would become. There being nothing in America’s constitutional settlement that permits a president to recast the rules if they prove electorally inconvenient for him, the Obama administration’s repeated rewriting of the law has been vexing enough in isolation. Far worse, however, is that in the eyes of the expansionist Left, Obamacare seems not to represent a limited series of binding and meaningful words on a page — there to be implemented within the usual bounds of discretion — but a holistic permission slip for its aims. Increasingly, its defenders’ arguments are boiling down to “but this is a good idea,” an approach that renders Obamacare little more than a shell into which good intentions can be poured without limit and that cannot legitimately be resisted — not by Congress, not by the states, and not even by the courts. “Sure,” the attitude dictates, “it doesn’t say we can do that explicitly. But all right-thinking people believe we should.” “Yes,” say the foot soldiers, “this was fought over tooth and nail and passed in extreme circumstances. But the intent of the good guys should prevail nonetheless.” Meanwhile, anyone who pushes back is met with the same mawkish, manipulative cry: “Are you really going to take away from people what we have now given them?”

The answer to this question should be a resounding “yes.” Yes, if you had no authority to give out favors in the first instance. Yes, if you insist upon behaving with no regard for memory or for history. Yes, if you are determined to hijack the system and ride roughshod over the consent of the governed. “Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored,” Aldous Huxley once wrote. The rule of law, neither. Reality is not optional, and power is not its arbiter — whatever our celebrated experts might find it convenient to forget.
 
the dems should have gone with single payer, they had the votes but Obama Reid and Pelosi did not want to alienate their paymasters.
They would have gone with single payer, had they had the votes. They didn't. Baucus in the Senate, for one, would have blocked it. In the end there were far too many democrats that woudn't go along with single payer . They couldn't even pass the public option with only democrat votes, let alone single payer!

In the end, they passed a modified version of the ridiculous plan of the Heritage Foundation, thinking that if they proposed a Republican plan they'd have enough Republicans on board to get around the recalcitrant democrats. But they miscalculated. They could only pass an incredibly flawed plan, which was the only way to get enough democrats on board to pass anything at all, and without a single republican vote.

The only way the Heritage plan could have any chance of succeeding on a national scale would have been to start by repealing the McCarran-Ferguson Act. And that couldn't be passed either. It's a mess. God bless Amurica.
 
1. last time we discussed McCarran-Ferguson you did not respond when I pointed out you were misrepresenting it... now you pull out the propublica misdirection again.

2. Being that the democrats passed obamacare on a party line vote... they could have passed single payer on a party line vote. That is the point. They chose to be whores instead of what was right for the country in a liberals eyes.

3. Now here is where leftist spin gets bounced again.... Obama selected Baucus to do the bidding of the insurance companies.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obamasdeal/view/


To navigate the process of health reform, President Obama turned to his chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, a consummate deal maker, who helped stock the West Wing with an all-star lineup of congressional insiders. But almost immediately, a key member of the team was forced to step down, and the country's greatest champion of health reform, Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), was sidelined with incurable brain cancer. The administration's hopes for reform rested with Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.), the powerful head of the Senate Finance Committee, who also happened to be one of the Senate's top recipients of special interest money from the health care industry.

The White House encouraged Baucus to quietly negotiate deals with the insurance lobby, drug companies and other special interest groups, despite promises to run a different kind of White House. "The president said that having people at the table is better than having them throw stuff at the table," White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer tells FRONTLINE.

4. Here was the true liberal position at the time. Not like the whores on the hill... who said pass it to see whats in it.


<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/zReFgfodNb0?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>








They would have gone with single payer, had they had the votes. They didn't. Baucus in the Senate, for one, would have blocked it. In the end there were far too many democrats that woudn't go along with single payer . They couldn't even pass the public option with only democrat votes, let alone single payer!

In the end, they passed a modified version of the ridiculous plan of the Heritage Foundation, thinking that if they proposed a Republican plan they'd have enough Republicans on board to get around the recalcitrant democrats. But they miscalculated. They could only pass an incredibly flawed plan, which was the only way to get enough democrats on board to pass anything at all, and without a single republican vote.

The only way the Heritage plan could have any chance of succeeding on a national scale would have been to start by repealing the McCarran-Ferguson Act. And that couldn't be passed either. It's a mess. God bless Amurica.
 
...
2. Being that the democrats passed obamacare on a party line vote... they could have passed single payer on a party line vote. That is the point. ...
???. Jem, once again, I am unable to follow your logic. Perhaps your logic is like Jimi Hendrix's music, it's much better when your high.
 
They would have gone with single payer, had they had the votes. They didn't. Baucus in the Senate, for one, would have blocked it. In the end there were far too many democrats that woudn't go along with single payer . They couldn't even pass the public option with only democrat votes, let alone single payer!

Obstructionist democrats? Who knew?
 
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