Feasibility of landing a quant job as a fresh master of physics grad

[globalarbtrader]

Seems like a reasonable set of expectations of a candidate. Thanks for the list of recruiters, I'll be getting in touch with them shortly.



I studied a module on non-linear dynamics which touch on chaos theory which I found thoroughly enjoyable so I'm sure this will be an interesting read. Thanks for the recommendation.



You're right, @globalarbtrader has provided some invaluable insight, as have many other people in this thread which I am truly grateful for. It's great to see a community that is so willing to help exists in the systematic trading space!

Thank you for the information regarding Renaissance, I was under the impression that I was somewhat under qualified


for a position with them. In regards to data, I had substantial exposure to massive data sets in my masters research project where I was tasked with producing a machine learning algorithm concerned with improving the signal to noise ratio in particle physics data sets. I utilised the CERN grid (the largest distributed computing system in the world) to perform my analysis on ~6TB of data. If you have nothing better to do and would like to be bored to death then feel free to scan over my dissertation which you can find here:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe particle physics is the most data intensive field in the world with the LHC producing a mind-blowing 30 petabytes of data annually (not accounting for simulations) which is only going to increase as they turn up the power / luminosity.



I'm glad you think that, it's definitely encouraging Good shout, ideally I'd like to gain exposure of the full development line from alpha generation right through to execution handling.

BTW if you're ever 'down south' let me know (I live commuting distance from London); I'm happy to dispense more detailed advice for the price of a cup of coffee.

GAT

 

[truetype]

I've hired many people through those recruiters but I absolutely would not use them for someone right out of school. Not worth paying a 30% markup.

I don't disagree, but smaller quant shops that don't college-recruit miss a lot of talent from off-the-run schools, e.g. US Midwest schools.

 

[sle]

smaller quant shops that don't college-recruit miss a lot of talent from off-the-run schools, e.g. US Midwest schools.

Being at a very shishy place, I often wonder about that - I think we only recruit from maybe 10 schools. My sense is that kids from the top tier places are now able to pick finance or non-finance with a similar long term expectation (e.g. someone can go to Goldman or go to Google and his long term perspectives, adjusted for quality of life, are roughly the same). Maybe the answer is to look at second tier schools and just be even more selective?

 

[truetype]

Even the bulge banks and marquee technology firms are looking at `second tier' schools. There are very talented kids at schools such as Michigan State, Purdue, Lehigh, and they're less picked over. I attended a job fair at MIT last year and there were ~400 employers with booths. Crazy high demand for talent.

 

[TauLepton]

You might ping Jeremy Robertson. He's British but operates from New York, so he knows both sides of the lake. I've enjoyed working with him.

Thank you for the suggestion, I'll get in touch with him.

BTW if you're ever 'down south' let me know (I live commuting distance from London); I'm happy to dispense more detailed advice for the price of a cup of coffee.

GAT

Thats a very kind offer and I welcome the opportunity. I live in greater London so am also a commutable distance from central London. I'll private message you so we can make arrangements.

 

[Sig]

Being at a very shishy place, I often wonder about that - I think we only recruit from maybe 10 schools. My sense is that kids from the top tier places are now able to pick finance or non-finance with a similar long term expectation (e.g. someone can go to Goldman or go to Google and his long term perspectives, adjusted for quality of life, are roughly the same). Maybe the answer is to look at second tier schools and just be even more selective?

I have to agree with this and truetype and would go even further to say that if you're at an entrepreneurial school you see it as similar long term expectations on dollars alone even before controlling for quality of life, which itself is highly valued. I don't even know why the banks bothered at my grad school when just a handful of my classmates ended up going into investment banking anyway. Their ROI had to be horrible given the effort they put into it. If grads aren't going to work 80 hour weeks for GS then they certainly aren't going to work 80 hour weeks for the next tiers down. And with grade non-disclosure they had no idea if that handful were the bottom of the bucket.
We liked to think pretty highly of ourselves, but I've gotta believe the top 10-50 grads at MBA programs ranked in the 10-50 range are just as good if not better. Plus you can get someone hungry who doesn't feel entitled to be a partner in 5 years.

 

[777]

Clearly @globalarbtrader has given you some excellent advice, and insight, from someone not only involved in that facet of the industry, but without an agenda.

I saw Renaissance listed as one of the funds so I’ll add a brief comment. They separate out the pure quant’s from the programmers and are demanding the best for both. Their compensation package is an outlier in order to get the best. I can’t speak about the programmers but for research they ideally look for a PhD from Stanford or MIT in pure maths or physics. A PhD astro-physics is desirable, they want to see someone who has handled vast amounts of data in a pure research setting. Someone with an advanced maths background who worked for a government agency involving cryptography is also a good candidate. Similarly a background in nuclear physics where the data for simulating reactions is truly enormous.

The temperaments of such a group can get a little on edge at times so fit is very important. There was an occasion of a rather heated battle and they want to avoid a repeat. That being said, pure talent of the highest order will be given a lot of leeway, but you better have a Fields Medal.

I know nothing about you so no point in saying more. You very well may have some traits that they find desirable.

Excellent Intel; perhaps you are with the CIA?

Almost anyone with close to a chance of being hired by Renaissance should apply.

Bonus: Thier mostly employee owned hedgefund (Medallion) is by many standards, the best of the best. Literally. Best total longterm returns and best risk adjusted returns.

 

[MarkBrown]

interview question let me see your account statements, crickets chirping, interrupted by the call to send in the next guy.

 

[sle]

interview question let me see your account statements, crickets chirping, interrupted by the call to send in the next guy.

I guess that's why you are not working for a fund Retail trading has zero correlation with what this kid would be doing at a fund - different capacity, product set and different thought process.

For a PM role, however, that's kinda the first question - do you have a track record? After that, there are still many hoops to jump through.

 

[MarkBrown]

For a PM role, however, that's kinda the first question - do you have a track record?

you asking me if i have a track record? i am not a retail trader, even though i slum with you guys. i could build a house with the resumes i receive every single day. i am looking for a trade execution specialist though but they don't even teach these kids how to place a trade.

not to mention the trouble you have getting them off facebook and working around their busy personal schedules to get just a few minutes a day work out of them. i would hire a ex prop trader anyday that has passion than a phd who feels they are entitled.