Fear and delusion

[tomdavis]

Quote from Qwerty:

Quote from tomdavis:



Would you pay a flight instructor before you saw the appropriate certifications and proof of his/her competence?

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Tiger Woods, the a living legend, who was his mentor? his lowly father, he certainly did not have sterling credentials or proof of his competence to teach the game of golf, how valuable was his influence on Tiger tomdavis? you apparently can't see the value of that can you? others around you surely see it, but you can't or will not acknowledge it because you want to see credentials 1st then you'll believe it, right? That is one example where a mentor or a coach does not need credentials to hone another person to be great.

Bill Gates, does he need to show proof that he's competent? he thumbed his nose at Harvard and did not graduate from that prestigious institution and now Harvard can surely need more of him if they could.

First, Tiger Wood's father was anything but lowly. He was a highly-decorated special operations soldier who rose to the rank of Lt. Colonel and went on to be an instructor of Military Science and Tactics at two universities. Second, Tiger's father admitted early on that there was a limit to what he could teach his son about golf and brought in Rudy Duran to be Tiger's professional teacher when Tiger was only 4 years old. Tiger's father was a very smart man who admitted publicly he had little to teach his son about the game of golf -- so he brough in Duran, a highly respected junior golf instructor. Tiger's father always insisted that his son be taught by people with outstanding credentials.

Your statement about Bill Gates proves my point exactly. Bill Gates credentials can be summed up in one word: Microsoft. Nobody doubts him now because he has a provable track record that anyone can look at. It's right there for everyone to see. Please tell which mentors-for-hire have a real-time, real money trading track record than anyone can see.

 

[Pension_Admin]

Quote from Mr.Consistent:

I tried to call that numberto book some flying lessons, but you either posted wrong number or you're running a male escort service.

It is not easy to get training from me. If it is that easy, then everyone will be pilots, flying around instead of driving cars!!!

I tend to put candidates to a test of will by having them listen to the adult line you just called for a number of hours. Once I get enough $, I mean, once I sense the sincerity from the candidate, then I'll let the candidate offer me their money and credit card numbers to open up a membership account.

Mr. Consistent, I sense your sincerity. I will make an exception. I'll let you bypass the test and let you offer me your money directly to open a membership account. This exception is for you only and do not tell anyone about this! Also, I'll be on a flight trip next Tuesday, so you need to open the membership account on Monday.

PA

Had the kamikaze gotten my training, they would have learned the secret of the reset button, use it after the crash, and start all over again!!!

 

[edtradernyc]

Qwerty's argument seems to be very logical.. Tom, you don't know what you're talking about.. Mentors have to charge for their time.. Bottom line.. There is no music teacher/or mentor that just gives, gives, gives, his time but doesn't receive, receive, receive, compensation..

I'd re-think your argument there, Tom and Pension_Admin, for you both are digging yourself a pretty deep mudhole.

 

[Pension_Admin]

Quote from edtradernyc:

Qwerty's argument seems to be very logical.. Tom, you don't know what you're talking about.. Mentors have to charge for their time.. Bottom line.. There is no music teacher/or mentor that just gives, gives, gives, his time but doesn't receive, receive, receive, compensation..

I'd re-think your argument there, Tom and Pension_Admin, for you both are digging yourself a pretty deep mudhole.

So, edtradernyc, when are you gonna pay for the flight training lesson you have been receiving from me in this thread? You know, my time is valuable and I deserve to be compensated by students like yourself for all my postings in this thread. As of now, you owe me $2260.00.

 

[Pension_Admin]

Quote from Pension_Admin:

So, edtradernyc, when are you gonna pay for the flight training lesson you have been receiving from me in this thread? You know, my time is valuable and I deserve to be compensated by students like yourself for all my postings in this thread. As of now, you owe me $2260.00.

Pension Admin is correct. edtradernyc need to pay up. I have received flight training lessons from PA and now I am a fully licensed pilot working at Amercan Airline. Without the help of PA, I wouldn't be where I wanted to be. Picking PA to be my flight instructor/mentor/leader was the best choice I have ever made in my entire life. I just wish I knew PA sooner.


Sincerely,


PilotDude (not a shill and not PA himself)
Student of PA who is just using PA's computer.

 

[tomdavis]

Quote from edtradernyc:

Qwerty's argument seems to be very logical.. Tom, you don't know what you're talking about.. Mentors have to charge for their time.. Bottom line.. There is no music teacher/or mentor that just gives, gives, gives, his time but doesn't receive, receive, receive, compensation..

I'd re-think your argument there, Tom and Pension_Admin, for you both are digging yourself a pretty deep mudhole.

I NEVER said a mentor or teacher shouldn't charge for his time. It's perfectly appropriate to pay a teacher. I pay my flight instructor, I pay my golf coach, I pay my daughter's ballet teacher. I'm happy to do so. But I didn't agree to pay them until I knew they were accomplished in their fields.

My argument is this: 99% of the people offering themselves as mentors-for-hire in the trading business cannot prove that they are accomplished traders and worthy of being hired. Most say, "Pay me now and trust me." Should I go flying with a flight instructor who refuses to show me his credentials?

The trading industry is full of rip-off artists who can't make a living trading so they hold themselves out as "mentors" to scam a buck. Truth is, 99% of them are losing traders. I challenge you to get one so-called mentor to show you real-money trading accounts that prove that they know how to trade. If you can, that's the rare 1%, and that's someone worth paying as a trading mentor.

 

[Qwerty]

Quote from tomdavis:



My argument is this: 99% of the people offering themselves as mentors-for-hire in the trading business cannot prove that they are accomplished traders and worthy of being hired. Most say, "Pay me now and trust me." Should I go flying with a flight instructor who refuses to show me his credentials?

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Your ideals are well meaning, but it falls short of the mark unfortunately at this time, potential students of course will do what serves their interest, perhaps it's you tomdavis that will bring about change and enact legislation so that trading advisors are required to show documentation under all circumstances, you can go to your grave and who really is going to give a damn, until then good luck, lol.

 

[tomdavis]

Quote from Qwerty:

Quote from tomdavis:



My argument is this: 99% of the people offering themselves as mentors-for-hire in the trading business cannot prove that they are accomplished traders and worthy of being hired. Most say, "Pay me now and trust me." Should I go flying with a flight instructor who refuses to show me his credentials?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________


Your ideals are well meaning, but it falls short of the mark unfortunately at this time, potential students of course will do what serves their interest, perhaps it's you tomdavis that will bring about change and enact legislation so that trading advisors are required to show documentation under all circumstances, you can go to your grave and who really is going to give a damn, until then good luck, lol.

It does not require legislation, only that beginning traders wanting a mentor demand proof that the mentor really has a profitable trading track record BEFORE they hand over any money. That will put the frauds and scammers out of business.

Until then, the charlatans will prey on weak and desperate beginning traders, steal their money and feel no guilt. Most of these phony mentors-for-hire are nothing but failed traders who believe they have a right to rip people off until the government "enacts legislation."

 

[Trapper]

Quote from tomdavis:

I NEVER said a mentor or teacher shouldn't charge for his time. It's perfectly appropriate to pay a teacher. I pay my flight instructor, I pay my golf coach, I pay my daughter's ballet teacher. I'm happy to do so. But I didn't agree to pay them until I knew they were accomplished in their fields

Nice post!

Best regards,

Trapper

 

[edtradernyc]

Quote from tomdavis:

It does not require legislation, only that beginning traders wanting a mentor demand proof that the mentor really has a profitable trading track record BEFORE they hand over any money. That will put the frauds and scammers out of business.

Until then, the charlatans will prey on weak and desperate beginning traders, steal their money and feel no guilt. Most of these phony mentors-for-hire are nothing but failed traders who believe they have a right to rip people off until the government "enacts legislation."

Interesting you say that, tomdavis.. Even though I've lost a lot of money trading, I still know that the right mentor could make the biggest difference in the world. The student has his own mind to make up and that gets done well before they pay any mentor(fraud or not).. It's mainly the student's responsibility to do the due dilligence and if he fails to, he is the only one to blame.

Mentoring is legal at least in Currencies(Forex).. If someone wants to teach someone how to make money in it, they very well can no matter what there track record may suggest.

It's entirely up to the student to determine whether or not that mentor is credible and if he /she is not, they can find that out by doing a free trial basis with the mentor first with no money down.

But yes, Tom davis, everything Qwerty says is right on the money. Money should be given(as compensation for time) if the mentor(with no track record but successful trading results) gives his time and energy to bring that student up to a level he/she may never have been at before(according to you) or maybe the mentor wants a lighter schedule away from trading and wishes to ease his time helping others out.. there's not always mal intent for wanting to teach people markets nor does it mean the mentor is secretly overcompensating for his failed past, maybe he just likes doing what he does and let's keep it at that.

The analogy with the music teacher is really moot with trading.. Playing an instrument and learning to trade a volatile market are two different things.. One thing can be taught to perfection in time while the other may have much uncertainty in the long term.. No matter how good or skilled the mentor is, it's up to the student to fulfill his mentor's wishes and perform well, but not every market setup is created equal and there is plenty of room for error unlike a music student admitted to Carnegie Hall to play on the grand stage.. Mastery in playing music is different than Mastery in trading.. So that analogy isn't even relevant..

It's all about an odds game with trading and if the teacher(with no track record) teaches the student to perform well after a free trial basis, there is nothing wrong with a quid pro quo like relationship between the two.