You are data mining (cherry picking) the data to support your argument. As a double-shorter, I realize you cherry picked the data flawlessly. NO OTHER TIME FRAME GIVES THOSE RESULTS. **ALL the other time frames belie your argument*** Me, I'll play with ALL the other time frames. Do this for youself- do the data starting two months earlier. You'd be a winner, even holding throught your cherry-picked worst-case scenario!
FAZ/FAS math
- Thread starter privador81
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You are data mining (cherry picking) the data to support your argument. As a double-shorter, I realize you cherry picked the data flawlessly. NO OTHER TIME FRAME GIVES THOSE RESULTS. **ALL the other time frames belie your argument*** Me, I'll play with ALL the other time frames. Do this for youself- do the data starting two months earlier. You'd be a winner, even holding throught your cherry-picked worst-case scenario!
I am new to this board, and was seekng input. I am not new to investing.
I don't need credibility. I've got money. I am up last year, the year before, the year before that.
I have no axes to grind here.
And I'll tell you one thing, young man:
You should seek input anytime you can get it . Merely overlay the FAS & FAZ charts, and know that the pair decline over time. I can stand any margin call.
TO diversify, I'm going to short a few other 3x pairs over the next few days.
Yeah... you're profitable just like everyone else on ET 
Anyone who asks such basic questions as this http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2396731#post2396731 has no business shorting pairs of 3X ETFs. Not that anyone really believes you anyway... you sound like a noob who just discovered shorting naked options. Many of them thought they could "stand any margin call" too.
Anyone who asks such basic questions as this http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2396731#post2396731 has no business shorting pairs of 3X ETFs. Not that anyone really believes you anyway... you sound like a noob who just discovered shorting naked options. Many of them thought they could "stand any margin call" too.
You don't seem to realize what a danger you are to yourself by not properly understanding the risk involved in a double short of the long side and short side 3x ETFs.
In the second post in this thread I pointed out "How much would you have enjoyed being short FAZ when it tripled in a month (38 to 115, 2/09/09 to 3/06/09)?". So there is a second example of FAX more than tripling in less than a month within a 4 month period.
For those that can accept the risk, the proper risk to take with the 3x ETFs is to single short the side that has had an extreme move. Going double short the long side and short side of a 3x ETF before an extreme move has happened can be painful and expensive.
so in the long run are these things going to zero? they lose value everytime the market moves and then comes back to where it started.
Iam in the double short camp, so long as you keep a giant amount of cash for margin, and hold for the long run.
thanks for the replys and this isnt my forte I trade note futures at cbot
Iam in the double short camp, so long as you keep a giant amount of cash for margin, and hold for the long run.
thanks for the replys and this isnt my forte I trade note futures at cbot
how about this. If you want to be double long the sp500, it would be better to short a double short etf like sds. Of course you would have a stop in. market goes no where you win. market goes up you win.
yes? no ?
yes? no ?
I shorted 5000 shares of FAZ & FAS two weeks ago.
Yesterday I added 1000 shares of each.
ALL THIS "MAX SHORT" TALK IS NONSENSE. There is no limit to the number of shares outstanding, as they are created/destroyed daily.
Just put in an order 10 points away from the market price. At Ameritade, if there are shares available, the order goes in; if not it bounces back.
Do it early in the am, to reserve your shares