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Fatah vs. Hamas If we can't kill Jews we'll kill each other
- Thread starter drmarkan
- Start date
Whether or not Palestians are murderous maniacs is beside the point. No matter how pleasant or otherwise Palestians are, it doesn't justify what Israel does to them. It's that damn simple. Most absurd of alll, by far, is that non-Jewish Americans have allowed themselves to be duped into believing they have any sort of stake in Israel, and more than that, that having such a stake means they must abide by whatever Israel does. Let us be plain: if Israel was held to the same standards as Serbia, Tel Aviv would have been bombed a dozen times by now.
Quote from spect8or:
Whether or not Palestians are murderous maniacs is beside the point.
Excuse me but this is the point of this thread. You may start another thread about bad mean Israel of course even though there's been hundreds of threads like that but this one thread is about Palestinians killing each other.
No matter how pleasant or otherwise Palestians are, it doesn't justify what Israel does to them.
You mean being occupied is not fun? No kidding, huh? I guess they should have accepted a two state solution in 1948 or at the very least Clinton's peace proposal in 2000. Jordan and Egypt made peace with Israel and got all their land back, why can't palestinians?
if Israel was held to the same standards as Serbia, Tel Aviv would have been bombed a dozen times by now.
Was Serbia attacked several times during the last 60 years by 5-6 of its neighbors trying to wipe Serbia off the map? Is Serbia as small as Israel, does Serbia occupy 0.2% of the region, does it have a population of 5 million, is it surrounded by 20 hostile countries with the combined population of 350 million, all dreaming to drive the Serbians into the sea?
ah yes, the jackals in the CIA. All taking orders from pappy, the worlds biggest Heroin dealer. On a better note, the days of american corrupt corpocracy run by the zionists is nearing an end. Now there are hungrier and even more wily jackals running around, aka the Chinese.
Quote from dddooo:
No matter how pleasant or otherwise Palestians are, it doesn't justify what Israel does to them.
You mean being occupied is not fun? No kidding, huh? I guess they should have accepted a two state solution in 1948 or at the very least Clinton's peace proposal in 2000.
And yet they didn't. So what now? They have to grin and bear further dispossession?
if Israel was held to the same standards as Serbia, Tel Aviv would have been bombed a dozen times by now.
Was Serbia attacked several times during the last 60 years by 5-6 of its neighbors trying to wipe Serbia off the map? Is Serbia as small as Israel, does Serbia occupy 0.2% of the region, does it have a population of 5 million, is it surrounded by 20 hostile countries with the combined population of 350 million, all dreaming to drive the Serbians into the sea?
Lol, are you actually Jewish yourself? I'm just wondering, because Jews seem to do a tremendously good job of whipping up hysteria about the precariousness of their situation. The reality, of course, is somewhat different.
If you're not Jewish, I really do have to wonder why you buy into any of this. Why the hell is it any of your concern? Obviously Arabs and Jews are going to have vastly different interpretations of the events leading to the founding of Israel and subsequant to it. Perhaps to you Arabs should have calmly shut the hell up and accepted the take over of what had previously been, in living memory, overwhelmingly Arab land, and the forced expulsion of a million Arabs (if you include the '67 refugees). Arabs, as it turns out, view things rather differently. But if Americans are not Arabs or Jews, why the hell should America be picking sides? Especially since picking the Jewish side creates so many problems.
All that aside, it would seem that if Israelis actually want peace, then they would give up their hold on the west bank, no? Regardless of whether 350 million Arabs might despise Jews, it seems rather clear that continuing to dispossess Palestinians pisses Palestians off (not just keeping the west bank, but actively settling it). What is even the theoretical case for peace under such a scenario?
Look, you would be hard pressed to find someone with a lower opinion of the Islamic religion than myself. Should a disaster like an asteroid hitting the middle east strike, I would be among the first to see the positive side of it. For all that, I just don't see the rationale in tangling my world up with that of the Muslims'. Plainly, Israel's concerns are not my own, and, unless you're Jewish, neither are they yours.
Edit
I thought I was replying to drmarkan, not dddooo. Well, dddooo is certainly Jewish, so it's quite natural he sees every reason to mix America up in issues that are none of America's business.
Quote from spect8or:
If you're not Jewish, I really do have to wonder why you buy into any of this. Why the hell is it any of your concern? ... But if Americans are not Arabs or Jews, why the hell should America be picking sides?
I'm not Jewish either, Dan, but it does concern me that the same people who have sworn to murder every Jew and wipe Israel off the face of the map have also sworn to murder myself and my family, since we are 'infidels'. We are 'infidels', (who may righteously be beheaded), because we reject the idea that the Prophet Muhammed is indeed a Prophet, or even the idea that God exists. We are infidels because we cherish the values of the West, and have no problem if a young 17 year old woman chooses to have sex with her 17 year old boyfriend, before they are married (while encouraging them to be responsible and use a contraceptive and protection against STDs).
I wouldn't have believed that I was actually a target until recent airliner-into-building type events not far from where I live.
The people who have sworn to murder all Jewish children are also the ones that recently hung a 17 year old girl in Iran for 'acts inconsistent with chastity'; apparently she was flirting with a young man and may have even kissed him.
If you take two groups of people, one of which seems to enjoy butchering one another because of subtle differences in theology and another who never butcher each other for any reason, I would probably side with the non-butchers in most things. Maybe not all, but probably most. The idea that Sunni vs. Shia is enough to murder just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
As I have said before, most moderate Muslims probably abhor this behaviour, but you were asking why we would side with Jews against radical Islamic fanatics, not moderate Muslims. Undoubtedly, the vast majority of moderate Muslims would just want all the killing to stop and be free to pursue their business in peace. Unfortunately for those moderates who live in the Middle East, it's probably bad for your health to suggest that butchering a neighbour because he believes in a slightly different story of Islam is a bit over the top.
So if you ask why I would take sides, I guess those would be a few reasons.
Quote from Mom0/pH0x:
Well, it would certainly make them allies as we have common enemies. Also, they have been dealing with this particular source of adversity for much longer than we have. Israelis then, are valuable allies because of their ability to share information and tactics regarding an enemy which is rather new to us. We have been victimized by the same radical idiology, that generally suffices as reason to align yourself with them and thus be their ''ally''. They are also our only ally(and only democracy) in an otherwise very hostile, yet valuable and important reigon. If you are willing to follow this path of reason, what I have said is certainly no logical epiphany. I think a much better question would then be, why would we NOT take their side??
But most Arabs are clearly not Muslim radicals. Some may ally with muslim radicals in their struggle against Israel, but that doesn't necessarily make them radicals themselves, who would cut your or mine or Nik's throat for rejecting Islam. Israel is not only dispossessing radical Palestinians, it is dispossessing all Palestinians. Palestianians, and their Arab supporters, radical or not, have a legitimate cause. We have no horse in that race.
If radical Muslims have problems with us other than our blind support of Israel, those can be dealt with as required. The best idea would be to simply stop bringing Muslims into the country, as it is rather clear that they only way those Muslims can attack us is they actually get here first. Lack of foresight allowed Muslims to come, so there are already some domestic populations. These need to be monitored, and any extremists expelled. All of this is many times more logical and effective than the current strategy of pissing off the entire Muslim world--radicalising it, in effect-- all for the glorious goal of helping zionists in their efforts to rip off more palestinians.
Quote from spect8or:
All of this is many times more logical and effective than the current strategy of pissing off the entire Muslim world--radicalising it, in effect-- all for the glorious goal of helping zionists in their efforts to rip off more palestinians.
Obviously, 9/11 and the jihad sworn by radical Islam against myself and my family has a lot to do with the Israel/Palestine situation, and the West's support of Israel. However, I think it's a mistake to characterize the threat as exclusively related to Israel. Radical Muslims in many countries are gearing up for a push for the worldwide Islamic state. In many countries, this involves the religious leaders telling the women to have 12 children each. You may believe this, or you may not; I have direct experience of this phenomenon.
I think mom0's take is as good as any. Yes, blame lays on both sides in the Israel/Palestine conflict. But there is the point that the Palestinians could have had a deal, twice. The backers of the Palestinians are guilty of using them, to some degree. Iran says that they want to wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the planet. Iran is Palestine's backer. This complicates things, and I for one feel okay about standing behind Israel, given this fact.
Israel is there to stay, for now and for evermore.