Fast and cheap >1000 shares ??
- Thread starter TraderBob
- Start date
Magna
Administrator
Another possibility worth considering is Terranova Investor. They're a flat-fee web-based service with routing to ISLD and the dreaded ARCA. Although considerably dumbed down their order-entry has similar functionality to Realtick.
http://www.terranovaonline.com/investor/
http://www.terranovaonline.com/investor/
def
Sponsor
Keep in mind IB doesn't pass on SEC or other pass through fees for shares. It also doesn't charge any minimum fees to scale into a large trade. Finally, after 500 shares, the fee is 1/2 penny. Sure that adds up when doing large size but that is a professional fee (and even better than most prop houses since SEC fees aren't included) and any way you slice it, it still adds up to breakeven on 1 tick for true direct access.
Many firms offering fixed rates for high volume are
a: subsidizing the large trades through the majority of trades that are sent int at small size;
b: selling order flow to cover the cost;
c: losing money.
Many firms offering fixed rates for high volume are
a: subsidizing the large trades through the majority of trades that are sent int at small size;
b: selling order flow to cover the cost;
c: losing money.
No brokers with fees based on the $ amount?
The problem is if you trade 25,000$ on the same stock, 3 years ago this stock was at 25$ and you traded 1,000 shares (IB fees = 7.5$) but now this stock is at 5$ (because few stocks make reverse splits) and you must trade 5,000 shares (IB cost = 27.5$).
So the fees are 3,66 greater for the same $ amount and in my strategy they are taking now around 50% of my gains.
The problem is if you trade 25,000$ on the same stock, 3 years ago this stock was at 25$ and you traded 1,000 shares (IB fees = 7.5$) but now this stock is at 5$ (because few stocks make reverse splits) and you must trade 5,000 shares (IB cost = 27.5$).
So the fees are 3,66 greater for the same $ amount and in my strategy they are taking now around 50% of my gains.
We would like to thank all ET members for there feedback. In response, we offer our new exclusive offer for all EliteTrader.com Members, which is available with the recently released Direx Platinum v 6.0 (which includes Premium Charting & History)
Base Commission: $5 per 1000 shares
SOES: $2 per 1000 shares
Island: FREE
ARCA: $2 per 1000 shares
Trac: $3 per 1000 shares
NTRD: $3 per 1000 shares
BRUT $5 per 1000 shares
BTRD $5 per 1000 shares
DORS: $5 per 1000 shares
ATTN: $9 per 1000 shares
NYSE Direct FREE
NYSE SDOT FREE
AMEX Direct FREE
BULLETS $15 per 1000 shares
Cancels FREE
SEC FEE .0000301 x Total Value of Sales
Direx Platinum v 6.0 Software Fee (includes Premium Charting):
$39.99, waived after 100,000 monthly share volume.
Note: all pricing is prorated on a per share basis.
Example: 500 Shares executed on Island will cost $2.50.
1000 Shares executed on ARCA will cost $7.
500 Shares of NYSE Stock executed on NYSE Direct will cost $2.50.
For high volume traders please call for special pricing.
Please contact Customer Support with any questions at 1.866.68.DIREX or send us an e-mail at support@pointdirex.com
Sincerely,
Customer Support
Base Commission: $5 per 1000 shares
SOES: $2 per 1000 shares
Island: FREE
ARCA: $2 per 1000 shares
Trac: $3 per 1000 shares
NTRD: $3 per 1000 shares
BRUT $5 per 1000 shares
BTRD $5 per 1000 shares
DORS: $5 per 1000 shares
ATTN: $9 per 1000 shares
NYSE Direct FREE
NYSE SDOT FREE
AMEX Direct FREE
BULLETS $15 per 1000 shares
Cancels FREE
SEC FEE .0000301 x Total Value of Sales
Direx Platinum v 6.0 Software Fee (includes Premium Charting):
$39.99, waived after 100,000 monthly share volume.
Note: all pricing is prorated on a per share basis.
Example: 500 Shares executed on Island will cost $2.50.
1000 Shares executed on ARCA will cost $7.
500 Shares of NYSE Stock executed on NYSE Direct will cost $2.50.
For high volume traders please call for special pricing.
Please contact Customer Support with any questions at 1.866.68.DIREX or send us an e-mail at support@pointdirex.com
Sincerely,
Customer Support
Wow, that is excellent pricing, especially for NYSE traders.
Even Nasdaq traders would appreciate it, seeings as ISLD is free, and Arca isn't a whole lot more. Hard core scalpers probably wouldn't like it, as you can't access the liquidity for the .005, but for anyone else it's a great deal.
IB has a challenger!
Even Nasdaq traders would appreciate it, seeings as ISLD is free, and Arca isn't a whole lot more. Hard core scalpers probably wouldn't like it, as you can't access the liquidity for the .005, but for anyone else it's a great deal.
IB has a challenger!
Thanks for the feedback alfonso.
Everyone can find more information about our trading platforms at our website: www.pointdirex.com
You can contact us at: 1.866.683.4739 or email us: support@pointdirex.com. make sure you distinguish yourself as ET member.
Everyone can find more information about our trading platforms at our website: www.pointdirex.com
You can contact us at: 1.866.683.4739 or email us: support@pointdirex.com. make sure you distinguish yourself as ET member.
Cybertrader is a great firm...
unfortunately, they are living in *dream land* when they make claims about how great there flat rate commish fees are...
Do they really think that experienced traders are going to believe such non-sense that they are *saving the trader money* with their flat rate structure??
1st of all... your flexibility is greatly hampered with flat rate, as scaling in and out of positions becomes expensive (even with a 2 minute window), even if you are doing size.
2. Take a look at those pass through fees
!! Unless you are trading through ISLD exclusively... Your paying through the nose. Almost every venue cost a 1/2 penny on top of the $9.95 fee. Honestly trading 1000 shares is going to run you .013 average...
I KNOW this through experience with cybertrader.
Cyber has a great software package and great customer support...
I still use cybertrader for approx. 75 trades a month...
but I put through the other 100 - 150 trades I do a month through another broker. I try to only use Cyber when I can trade through ISLD, don't need to scale, and are trading over 1000 shares... ( these ideal conditions are not common in a volatile marketplace!!)
The great thing... competition is getting fierce in the direct access arena... innovative platforms that are matched with a competitive PER SHARE commish structure are on the rise...
Point Direx, Interactive Brokers, Tradestation will ultimately gain more and more market share... from SEASONED traders, who do volume!
Cybertrader's aggressive Ad campaign may seduce the novice trader, but as that trader grows from novice to experienced, he will begin looking to reduce his commish costs, so that he can make a reasonable living...
Cybertrader... these aren't the Go-Go years of the '90s...
You need to get REAL with your commish fees.
-- Z
Sounds like this pricing area is getting hotter by the day. PointDirex is putting up a challenge for sure. Cyber has the safety of Schwab behind it, which is something I owuldn't totally discount. If you are trading a small account or a prop account, you may not worry that much about solvency issues. Big hitters have to worry about it. IB has been the trader's best friend for a long time. I for one don't think we would be getting those cheap globex rates without them and I appreciate it very much. RT has been the platform of choice for many of us for years, but plenty of us have had it with their frequent outages and high prices. Lot of business out there for someone to get and consolidate before the next bull market.
There is an article in the current issue of Active Trader on commish rates. The head of TN makes an incredibly dumb statemtn to the effect that traders shouldn't care if they pay $10 or $20 becasue it's a small percentage of the trade. OK, let's say I do 100 tickets a month. That's 1200 a year times an extra $10 equals$12,000. Call me cheap but I would use one broker over another to pick that up.
What are the issues in choosing? For me, it's the following:
1. Platform. RT is the gold standard. Never used The Hammer but would like to see it.
2. Security. Who is the clearing firm? A lot of brokers use Penson. southwest is 3 times the size of Penson, and I find their statements better. Cybe/Schwab is beyone question. IB and Preferred seem solid. Who clears for PointDirex? Andover self-clears, anyone have a handle on them?
3. Commish. IB rocks for small size. >2000 shares and RT brokers are competitive. PointDirex is confusing and seems to change every week. Cyber seems to have a lot of catches, what's with that 2 minute bs? Andover ???
4. Fees. The bottom line here is don't charge me for ecn fees unless you also rebate for adds. NYSE fees at some firms add $4-5 per side. Do you get interest on short sales balances?
5. Customer service, tech support. Rt is great. TradeStation used to be beyond terrible, not sure how they are now. May be more important issue for newbie not used to trading software.
3.
There is an article in the current issue of Active Trader on commish rates. The head of TN makes an incredibly dumb statemtn to the effect that traders shouldn't care if they pay $10 or $20 becasue it's a small percentage of the trade. OK, let's say I do 100 tickets a month. That's 1200 a year times an extra $10 equals$12,000. Call me cheap but I would use one broker over another to pick that up.
What are the issues in choosing? For me, it's the following:
1. Platform. RT is the gold standard. Never used The Hammer but would like to see it.
2. Security. Who is the clearing firm? A lot of brokers use Penson. southwest is 3 times the size of Penson, and I find their statements better. Cybe/Schwab is beyone question. IB and Preferred seem solid. Who clears for PointDirex? Andover self-clears, anyone have a handle on them?
3. Commish. IB rocks for small size. >2000 shares and RT brokers are competitive. PointDirex is confusing and seems to change every week. Cyber seems to have a lot of catches, what's with that 2 minute bs? Andover ???
4. Fees. The bottom line here is don't charge me for ecn fees unless you also rebate for adds. NYSE fees at some firms add $4-5 per side. Do you get interest on short sales balances?
5. Customer service, tech support. Rt is great. TradeStation used to be beyond terrible, not sure how they are now. May be more important issue for newbie not used to trading software.
3.
def
Sponsor
AA,
You make a good point about financial stability. Schwab clearly is safe and Cyber does a good job of catering to their niche. I will however take the opportunity to state that IB was ranked number #1 by the Weiss ratings in terms of financial strength (ahead of the other investment banks and brokerages). Keep in mind the firm is solid and profitable and while privately held, has freely made it's financial statements available.
The question you need to ask: Can a firm make money and sustain themselves for the long haul with the fees they are charging? If you don't' think so, how long do you think they can stick around. Ask for financials and compare. (I'll add that IB does it because we are extremely efficient, do everything in house and have a proprietary trading group that uses the same systems which help reduce the cost.
As for fees, getting the lowest commission is ideal but there are different needs and functions for different types of trades. You should look at routing capabilities (the opportunity cost of not routing to the best venue can be far larger than any commission paid), sophisticated order types, on line margining (protection from losses of other customers), tax input preparations, diverse products, and the maintenance cost of doing all this should be taken into account when choosing a broker.
You make a good point about financial stability. Schwab clearly is safe and Cyber does a good job of catering to their niche. I will however take the opportunity to state that IB was ranked number #1 by the Weiss ratings in terms of financial strength (ahead of the other investment banks and brokerages). Keep in mind the firm is solid and profitable and while privately held, has freely made it's financial statements available.
The question you need to ask: Can a firm make money and sustain themselves for the long haul with the fees they are charging? If you don't' think so, how long do you think they can stick around. Ask for financials and compare. (I'll add that IB does it because we are extremely efficient, do everything in house and have a proprietary trading group that uses the same systems which help reduce the cost.
As for fees, getting the lowest commission is ideal but there are different needs and functions for different types of trades. You should look at routing capabilities (the opportunity cost of not routing to the best venue can be far larger than any commission paid), sophisticated order types, on line margining (protection from losses of other customers), tax input preparations, diverse products, and the maintenance cost of doing all this should be taken into account when choosing a broker.