False Advertisement with Try out firms like Top Step, One Up and Earn 2 Trade

[Earn2Trade]

I'm curious.

Do you have any data on how many funded traders you have at the moment? My impression is that those who get funded will usually withdraw profits, but do you have any traders who actually built an account and gained access to a larger amount of capital further down the road?

I'm sure most of your income is generated from selling subscriptions and fees which is totally legitimate, but I'm curious if there's actually been anyone who's made it beyond that with some degree of success.

Thank you.

Hello Laissez Faire!

I have been told by the funding partners while I was researching this question that among them, they have about 120 traders trading LiveSim/Live on most days nowadays. This is not the full number of traders, a lot of people take breaks, leave and come back, or just ask for time away, especially due to holiday, or unfortunately, COVID reasons.

As to people building up to larger accounts; the responses I got and what I also know from our traders is that there were multiple who upgraded from a $25k to a $50k for example, or any combination. Your assumption seems to be correct, the majority like to withdraw smaller amounts weekly, as opposed to keep the funds in the account. I'd guess this is probably true to most retail traders, regardless of which company they choose.

 

[Laissez Faire]

As to people building up to larger accounts; the responses I got and what I also know from our traders is that there were multiple who upgraded from a $25k to a $50k for example, or any combination. Your assumption seems to be correct, the majority like to withdraw smaller amounts weekly, as opposed to keep the funds in the account. I'd guess this is probably true to most retail traders, regardless of which company they choose.

Thank you for your reply, Orianna.

As for 25K to 50K account, I'll make one remark I've made earlier:

It's not really a 25K or 50K account you're offering, nor are you realistically letting a trader trade 6 contracts on a 50K account.

Let's look at a 50K account in practical terms and use ES as an example. With a 50K account - the daily loss limit is per contract:

1 / 22 points
2 / 11 points
3 / 7 points
4 / 5,5 points
5 / 4,0 points
6 / 3,5 points

So, in effect, with a 50K account if you're not going to hit the daily loss limit you pretty much need to stay with 1 contracts and I'd say maximum 3. And even if you build a cushion of profits there's still the trailing drawdown to consider at $2000.

Bottom line is that what you're really offering a day trader is $2000 in margin. Calling it a 50K account is kind of misleading.

And if the same rules apply for the live account - there does not seem to be much hope in scaling an account to eventually become big?

Note: My comment applies to the other funding firms too as I see they have similar rules. What's not quite clear to me is if a good trader will eventually be able to trade some larger size. I imagine the answer is that this is possible only if the trader uses his own profits as a cushion and then he might as well just withdraw profits to his own account instead.

 

[traderjo]

Bottom line is that what you're really offering a day trader is $2000 in margin. Calling it a 50K account is kind of misleading.
i TOTALLY AGREE and ALL of these Test fees company do this... not just one . but average Jo does not dig deep and understand / analyse and those who are blindly in love with this model don;t want to acknowledge this fact!
all they see is 2
5K 50K big nos as if they have real 50 K in account! LOL
For day trading for example with std margin for 1 ES around say 1000 with real 50K account one should be able to trade 50 ES contracts
For overnight it should be 3 ES

One day I hope regulators look in to this matter CLOSELY! really closely

 

[trade2020]

but average Jo does not dig deep and understand / analyse and those who are blindly in love with this model don;t want to acknowledge this fact!

exactly - the average joe just falls for the advertising and never really digs deeper before handing over the money. Many people don’t even know about the elite trader forums and these discussions because they just don’t research. Probably it’s because of the low $ threshold to get started on some of the challenges - also most people don’t even bother to ask to company for a copy of the funded trader contract to review before paying for a challenge.

There is nothing really that confidential on them and even if there was it could certainly be redacted/blacked out and the trader could see what the terms of the deal are if they take the time money and energy to pass to get Funded

any company that refuses to send a prospective trader a copy of the funded trader agreement in advance for review before buying a challenge should—in my opinion— run away from that company’s decision not invest in a challenge

Bottom line is that what you're really offering a day trader is $2000 in margin. Calling it a 50K account is kind of misleading.
i TOTALLY AGREE and ALL of these Test fees company do this... not just one . but average Jo does not dig deep and understand / analyse and those who are blindly in love with this model don;t want to acknowledge this fact!
all they see is 2
5K 50K big nos as if they have real 50 K in account! LOL
For day trading for example with std margin for 1 ES around say 1000 with real 50K account one should be able to trade 50 ES contracts
For overnight it should be 3 ES

One day I hope regulators look in to this matter CLOSELY! really closely

 

[Earn2Trade]

Hi everyone!

When it comes to margins and the related discussions, let me just add the following: It seems to me that you are thinking about margins as if they were some sort of absolute, and in the sense that they are determined by the CME, they are.

However, you have to remember that brokers and prop firms can also set their own margin requirements. I'm fairly certain that if you open an account with TD, you'll get overnight margins, regardless whether or not you trade intraday. Some brokers/prop firms require you to have overnight margins if you trade after 15:15 CT. And some will require that all day.

Flat out saying that you should be able to trade 50 ES contracts with $50,000 may be sound mathematics, but ignores the fact that you may not only be limited by margins set by the CME only.

I also want to remind you that the regular Gauntlet product uses overnight margins, and depending on the actual CME ES margin, which we have seen move between $6000 to $12000 (roughly), works exactly like you described. You used to be able to trade 4 contracts, now it is 1-2.

 

[traderjo]

Hi everyone!

When it comes to margins and the related discussions, let me just add the following: It seems to me that you are thinking about margins as if they were some sort of absolute, and in the sense that they are determined by the CME, they are.

However, you have to remember that brokers and prop firms can also set their own margin requirements. I'm fairly certain that if you open an account with TD, you'll get overnight margins, regardless whether or not you trade intraday. Some brokers/prop firms require you to have overnight margins if you trade after 15:15 CT. And some will require that all day.

Flat out saying that you should be able to trade 50 ES contracts with $50,000 may be sound mathematics, but ignores the fact that you may not only be limited by margins set by the CME only.

I also want to remind you that the regular Gauntlet product uses overnight margins, and depending on the actual CME ES margin, which we have seen move between $6000 to $12000 (roughly), works exactly like you described. You used to be able to trade 4 contracts, now it is 1-2.

We all know what CME margins are and we also know that FCMs are allowed to ask for more margin to cover their risk .. ok So are you claiming that at the moment your FCM asks for 12000 Margin on 1 ES from you? becasue the FCM considers it as a possible overnight trading and If you allow traders to hold positions overnight then fair enough you are putting true 50K on table
However do you allow overnight in ES ? and 4 ES max?
yes or no please be clear..

If you don;t allow overnight hen NO it does not require 50 K from your side and thus it is NOT a 50 K account and then that would be misleading
It is a straightforward technical question! and taht is not just to E2T but all such outfits

 

[trade2020]

To the best of my knowledge only their "regular" gauntlet allows positions to be held over (meaning you could also hold over weekends and/or swing trade) whereas the "mini gauntlet"
you have to be flat and the end of each session. So if that is all correct then only the "regular" gauntlet would use overnight margin requirements and the other mini gauntlet would only use day trade margin requirements.

It appears to be that the $50K name is simply that--a marketing name--
Most likely it is something they are allowed to do for marketing purposes --put $50K "virtual"
balance in account and call it $50K account--when in reality $50K cash is not in the account--I could be wrong---but the above is just my opinion

In any event they do not give you $50,000 in risk capital as your allowable drawdown is not $50,000 and that is clearly spelled out (what the daily loss limit, drawdown amount and max drawdown overall limit is) and none of those figures (daily loss limit, trailing drawdown, max drawdown) are $50,000 on the $50K account. What is show on the website for $50K account is EOD drawdown $2,000 - daily loss limit $1,100

It is definitely can be confusing to those that don't dig deeper into the actual math and think it through to the end as to what the actual "risk capital" is on $50K account, but its not that hard to figure out either

Its also not that hard to just look elsewhere for a better and more trader advantaged deal (in my opinion) than what Earn2Trade offers as that is what the free market is all about --choice--choice about where to spend your time, money and resources wisley--choice to make better decisions when trying to find a trade funding partner

We all know what CME margins are and we also know that FCMs are allowed to ask for more margin to cover their risk .. ok So are you claiming that at the moment your FCM asks for 12000 Margin on 1 ES from you? becasue the FCM considers it as a possible overnight trading and If you allow traders to hold positions overnight then fair enough you are putting true 50K on table
However do you allow overnight in ES ? and 4 ES max?
yes or no please be clear..

If you don;t allow overnight hen NO it does not require 50 K from your side and thus it is NOT a 50 K account and then that would be misleading
It is a straightforward technical question! and taht is not just to E2T but all such outfits

 

[traderjo]

To the best of my knowledge only their "regular" gauntlet allows positions to be held over (meaning you could also hold over weekends and/or swing trade) whereas the "mini gauntlet"
you have to be flat and the end of each session. So if that is all correct then only the "regular" gauntlet would use overnight margin requirements and the other mini gauntlet would only use day trade margin requirements.

It appears to be that the $50K name is simply that--a marketing name--
Most likely it is something they are allowed to do for marketing purposes --put $50K "virtual"
balance in account and call it $50K account--when in reality $50K cash is not in the account--I could be wrong---but the above is just my opinion

In any event they do not give you $50,000 is risk capital as your allowable drawdown is not $50,000 and that is clearly spelled out (what the daily loss limit, drawdown amount and max drawdown overall limit is) and none of those figures (daily loss limit, trailing drawdown, max drawdown) are $50,000.

It is definitely confusing to those that dont dig deeper into the actual math and think it through to the end, but its not that hard to figure out either

Yes it can be confusing for average person (which is what all these companies want as clients )
"simply marketing " can easily be construed as "false marketing"
but to be fair to these companies
If it is overnight and 4 ES then yes I agree they put 50K on table with FCM.. no false advertising
If it is day only and 4-5 contracts then it only needs say approx $1300 per ES as day trading margin, in that case they are not putting up 50K and there is a scope to say it is "unclear advertising"
Unless with Day trading they are allowing 50K/1300 = 38 ES contracts then YES again they will be putting 50 k on table and NO false advertising

 

[Earn2Trade]

As we all know, trading is a battle against psychology. Our accounts set risk parameters around trading at different amounts. These risk parameters take into consideration required margins as well as the most important thing, which is risk management of the capital. It is stated very clearly and abundantly what the trading parameters are for each account. There is no false or misleading advertising. The amounts are psychological as much as they are practical. There are limits on placing contracts, just as there are limits on daily and max losses.

These examinations simulate live trading. When trading live, we believe strongly, you should practice similar trading habits.

 

[traderjo]

As we all know, trading is a battle against psychology. Our accounts set risk parameters around trading at different amounts. These risk parameters take into consideration required margins as well as the most important thing, which is risk management of the capital. It is stated very clearly and abundantly what the trading parameters are for each account. There is no false or misleading advertising. The amounts are psychological as much as they are practical. There are limits on placing contracts, just as there are limits on daily and max losses.

These examinations simulate live trading. When trading live, we believe strongly, you should practice similar trading habits.

" The amounts are psychological as much as they are practical. "
E2T lets get to the point shall we ? enough of beating around the bush
Your are legitimate business ...so
for transparency sake could you please clarify in black and white the following

In funded account when you say 50K account main Gauntlet as an example

If it is Day trading only, How many contracts of ES allowed to open?
If it is allowed to hold overnight How many contracts of ES allowed?
(Assuming these are real accounts with an FCM not some sim accounts)
A straight forward answer to these questions will tell everybody what exactly you/ your sister concern who actually holds the real account as "Funding firm" puts on the table with FCM for EACH funded trader

If overnight you allow 3 ES then I would agree that you would be putting up real 13,000 x 3
and in that case nothing wrong in calling it a 50K account

If only day trading if you allow say 35 ES then also you are putting up real 50K in margin with FCM so in that case nothing wrong in calling it a 50K account

If above is not the case and you are allowing only a tiny fraction then certainly it is not a 50 K account