Fake victims...

Quote from msfe:



oops - i forgot that it was Saddam and his terrorist forces who attacked and invaded poor defenseless America with his evil nukes and chemical/biological weapons of mass destruction

Nice try at changing the subject.

Still waiting for you to back up your earlier statements. Going to bed now. Maybe you'll have posted a surprise here for me tomorrow morning.
 
I'm so deeply disappointed.

I was so hopeful that msfe was finally going to back up one his claims. I guess that I'll just have to conclude that, once again, he's totally full of shit.

I suppose, as I suspected, that what he meant when he claimed that the European media reported things more "correctly" was that they reported things in a way that conformed to his prejudices and biases.

Well... they day is young, here in California anyway. I wonder what the chances are that he'll do something to establish some credibility - either by proving his point or, for the first time in ET history, admitting he made a statement he couldn't justify.
 
Well, it's the mid-afternoon now in California, but getting late in Switzerland, or Germany... Still waiting for msfe to prove that, against all appearances and past performance, he possesses some integrity.

I notice his been busy in the meantime on other threads, energetically working up his familiar delusions and illusions. He even managed to make a typically impertinent comment regarding one aspect of an article that I posted on the main subject, an article whose central claim as to the bias in the German media remains uncontradicted. Yet, msfe still hasn't found the time to back up his irresponsible claim that the European media has been reporting events in Iraq more "correctly" than Fox and CNN.

The article I posted dealt with the German media. Here are some observations - of a different type - on the French media - in effect that they've treated their audience much as the Arab media has treated the Arabs. More recent reports from other individuals living in France confirm that, as a BBC reporter put it, the France have larged been "stunned by the welcome American forces received." Now, if the French media were reporting the war "correctly," how could this have happened?

Sunday, April 06, 2003
DENIAL

By Nelson Ascher


The French are in absolute denial. Or at least their press is.

Having read today’s (Sunday’s) French papers and magazines there’s no avoiding the conclusion that in terms of foreign policy they are living in a parallel universe – a universe that works rigorously according to their rules, or rather, to their wishes.

[SOUND FAMILIAR?]

They’re sure they’re right. But that’s fine: there’s nothing new about this.

They’re also sure the US is absolutely wrong, and this is also OK.

But they do not only think the UK’s wrong: they believe that Blair and the English know they’re wrong and are just waiting for America’s first moment of distraction to tell the French how right they (the French) have been all along. The French are in no doubt that at the first possible opportunity the Brits will approach them to beg them their forgiveness for having done something so patently stupid as siding with the Yanks.

The very improbable possibility that a military victory might enhance Blair’s prestige chez les anglais doesn’t obviously belong in their Cartesian universe. Neither does the idea that, even if they were wrong, the English could perhaps persist in the mistake of thinking they’re right. No way: isn’t it obvious that the English need the French in order to get rid of the Americans? In other words: according to the French the only result of the Anglo-American alliance has been to strengthen guess who: the French.

Someone (it could and it should have been but it wasn’t Karl Kraus) said before WW1 that the root of all international troubles was that diplomats lied to journalists and then took what they read in the newspapers seriously.

As the French papers haven’t been seriously covering the war and as their journalists read only each other and so on, I’m afraid the whole of France will completely misunderstand the meaning of a huge victory.

The French are so sure that their disapproval has fatally weakened les anglo-saxons that they do not even dream of the remote possibility that, in the international stage, they (les anglo-saxons) are stronger by the day.

They’ve got so used to speak in the name of the world that they don’t seem to suspect that the Russians for sure and the Germans probably will try to mend fences with America as soon as possible. The French papers speak as if they were les porte-paroles first of all of Europe and then of the rest of the world. The idea that they might get or may already be isolated has not dawned upon them yet.

You see: the world is actually the UN and the UN is actually ruled by the Security Council and in the Security Council they actually have 4 votes (because the English, you see, want nothing more than to sever their mésalliance avec les américains) out of 5 and actually that’s it. They’ve won. The game is over. Can’t you see that?

Don’t those anglo-saxons simplistes understand that there’s no use in winning a war (but they’re losing it anyway) if you lose the peace (which has already been lost even before the loss of the war)?

And the silence of the American administration doesn’t even sound ominous to them.

http://www.europundits.blogspot.com/2003_04_01_europundits_archive.html#92080429
 
Why waste time talking about the French? They are irrelevant. Similar to a buzzing mosquito flying around an elephant. All they want and need desperately is to just be noticed.

Well, in truth they don't really deserve any attention.

C'est la vie! :)


ps anyone notice how Kofi Annan cancelled his trip to the non-niet-nein conference this week? :D
 
Quote from Kymar:

[Quoting Nelson Ascher]

As the French papers haven’t been seriously covering the war and as their journalists read only each other and so on, I’m afraid the whole of France will completely misunderstand the meaning of a huge victory.



Lol, you don't miss a chance to criticize msfe for cutting and pasting op-ed pieces, but it's A OK when you do it.

Anyway, it's interesting that you chose to highlight the above passage. Is it anything more than Ascher's own subjective, unsubstantiated point of view? It's hard to see how you thought it was such a pertinent point that you'd better highlight it lest we missed being enlightened by it.
 
Quote from Babak:

Why waste time talking about the French? They are irrelevant.


Yeah, France is irrelevant, Germany is irrelevant, Russia is irrelevant, China is irrelevant. Heck, the whole damn world is irrelevant. The only relevant thing about planet Earth -- and hence the only thing worth wasting time talking about -- is the good ole US of A. Right Babs?
 
Quote from alfonso:


Lol, you don't miss a chance to criticize msfe for cutting and pasting op-ed pieces, but it's A OK when you do it.

Anyway, it's interesting that you chose to highlight the above passage. Is it anything more than Ascher's own subjective, unsubstantiated point of view? It's hard to see how you thought it was such a pertinent point that you'd better highlight it lest we missed being enlightened by it.

I don't recall criticizing msfe for pasting op-ed pieces, though I have certainly criticized him for pasting stupid ones, and I have often criticized the pieces themselves in detail. I've also pointed out many times that he never pauses to defend the claims contained within the pieces he posts. Until very recently, he almost never stated his own opinions at all, and, even when he does speak up for himself, he fails to take responsibility.

Maybe you somehow missed it, but he asserted above that the European media has reported events "correctly," while Fox and CNN have merely passed on "Ari Fleischer's primitive propaganda lies." I suggested that this statement merely reflected his own biases, and I challenged him to provide any evidence to back up up his claim. He has failed to do so. Similarly, on another thread he recently made completely untrue accusations against me personally. He was simply fabricating, stating a belief which had no basis in the facts, but which merely happened to suit his prejudices.

I found Ascher's observations interesting in general, and I highlighted the particular passage simply because his observation contradicts msfe's, but directly corroborates the one made by the BBC reporter I also mentioned, and also conforms to observations that I have seen elsewhere as well. In any event, I consider Ascher to be much more persuasive and trustworthy than msfe, who has shown himself to be utterly lacking not just in objectivity, but in basic personal integrity as well.
 
David Hare: "Don´t look for a reason"

It is a hardy soul who has witnessed without flinching Americans raining down terror from the sky, shooting up Iraqi civilians, British soldiers, children, women - hell, fellow Americans, why not? Inflicting almost as many casualties on their own allies as the ostensible enemy has done. It has been impossible for anyone not to contemplate the disparity between American firepower, the bulk weight of US technology, and the pathetic, disorganised inadequacy of Iraqi resistance and not feel sickened by the unevenness of the fight. And more, beyond that shame at an inequality of means which you cannot even dignify with the name of war, to ask "And to what end? And to what point?"

I understand no more than anyone, no more than this: at some level I believe this administration does not even know why it chose Iraq. I believe it cannot even remember the reasons. The reasons have changed so many times - at least in public - and make so little palpable sense that it is, of course, tempting to believe, as conspiracy theorists will always believe, that there is some hidden reason which is being kept from us. But to me, the more frightening possibility is this: what if no such reason exists? If there is indeed, no casus belli?

If that were the case, then there would be, at least, an explanation for our own inarticulacy, for the failure of our speechmaking. It appears that something so profound is happening in the world that none of us is yet able to grasp it. How can we consider and speak to the possibility that America is deliberately declaring that the only criterion of power shall now be power itself? The introduction of the doctrine of the right to the pre-emptive strike is an event in international history of infinitely more consequence and importance than anything that happened on September 11. Even the transgression of a territorial border and the murder of innocent citizens cannot compare to what is being claimed here: the right to go in and destroy a regime, at whatever cost and without any clear plan for its future, not because of what anyone has done, but because of what you cannot prove they might do.

George Bush is a born-again Christian and a recovering alcoholic. I see in him the uncontrollable anger of the alcoholic, once directed at himself, sluiced away every night into his bloodstream and out into the gutter, now, tragically, directed, via his amazingly aggressive, amazingly triumphant body language, on to whatever poor soul comes into his sights.

The intention to destroy the credibility of the United Nations, and its right to help try and defuse situations of danger to life, is not a byproduct of recent American policy. It is its very purpose. Bush chose Iraq not because it would make sense, but because it wouldn't. He did it, in short, because he could. No better reason than that. "Because I can, I will." The thinness of the justification for this war is, in fact, its very point. As is the arbitrariness of the target. The proliferation of other named targets - Syria, North Korea, maybe Burma, why not China? - adds, in Bush's eyes, only to the deliciousness of the game.

Caught, significantly, chuckling and laughing before a supposedly serious press conference about enemy losses and American advances, Bush comes to represent the man flexing private muscles for no other reason than the feral pleasure of the flex. What is being asserted today is the right to assert, to go in with absolutely no gameplan for how you will get out. Did the Bush administration deliberately omit to put any aid to Afghanistan in its current budget plans? Or, worse, did it simply forget?

Tonight in Jerusalem, next to the Garden of Gethsemane, under cover of war, while the world is not looking, Jewish fundamentalists are moving into an armed apartment block on land which belongs to the Palestinians; in the White House, Christian fundamentalists dream of moving on to murder and mayhem in countries beyond count; and on the stony hillsides of Pakistan and Afghanistan, Muslim fundamentalists dream of moving on to murder and mayhem in countries beyond count. The trade union of international politicians exercises an ever more Stalinist grip, moving countries and armies to wars they do not want. Only the people say no.
 
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