Faith is way overrated!!!

[hermit]

Quote from unretired:

Much ... especially early development in family and culture.

Adopted children from different cultures speak the language of
the culture they grow up in and don't have an accent.

There are many an adopted child who have grown up speaking "Valley Girl" speak
who's biological lineage have lived on the other side
of the world for thousands of years.

So perhaps one can conclude that beliefs are primarily an environmental product and hence much of what a person believes is rather inconsequential since it cant be much dissimilar from the source.

 

[unretired]

Quote from hermit:

So perhaps one can conclude that beliefs are primarily an environmental product and hence much of what a person believes is rather inconsequential since it cant be much dissimilar from the source.

Somewhat true ... except people and societies grow and develop.

One can conclude that age, wisdom, education and the evidential fruit of others
is a derivative of their experience and culture and has some value.

That value may be beneficial, encouraging and positive or non-beneficial, discouraging and negative.

 

[stu]

Quote from loza:

... That is where science and reason face a choice. Like an eaglet in a nest before its first flight, reason can choose to believe that flight (i.e. some unknown or transcendental plane) is possible, or not. Through observation the eaglet can watch other eagles taking flight. From there it could form conclusions about its own capabilities to do so. However, until it actually braves out of the nest it would have no personal proof that what holds true for others holds true for itself. That it would consider making the attempt to fly is based on belief. Actually stepping out of the nest is based on faith. ...

You are anthropomorphizing an eaglets reactions into a structured thought process as if it were a human being.

There is nothing to suggest eaglets do anything else but react to sensations received from the environment. Through stretching wings for the first time , until they are able to convey information, and its brain is capable of processing it, until the innate ability to fly is triggered. Like a child trying to walk, it’s nothing to do with faith.

There are no reasons to assume it is saying "oh shit" to itself, "I must have faith I must believe I can fly". It doesn't have the power of language to think in that way in any case any more than a very young child. Or that it even deliberates danger , other than by a built in evolutionary natural instinctive aversion against hitting the deck amongst other things.

Belief and faith are overused and misused words in my opinion. I'd say no living thing including humans have to hold any belief or have any faith of any kind whatsoever as a necessity to life or survival. Knowledge and understanding yes, belief and faith - no.

 

[loza]

It is better anthropomorphizing an eaglet than anthropomorphizing a god, to be a vicious, vindictive and republican loving entity who is a male. Who had an alleged son with a virgin and let him perish here on earth for a fickle, sordid mob who tortured him to death.

Quote from stu:

You are anthropomorphizing an eaglets reactions into a structured thought process as if it were a human being.

There is nothing to suggest eaglets do anything else but react to sensations received from the environment. Through stretching wings for the first time , until they are able to convey information, and its brain is capable of processing it, until the innate ability to fly is triggered. Like a child trying to walk, it’s nothing to do with faith.

There are no reasons to assume it is saying "oh shit" to itself, "I must have faith I must believe I can fly". It doesn't have the power of language to think in that way in any case any more than a very young child. Or that it even deliberates danger , other than by a built in evolutionary natural instinctive aversion against hitting the deck amongst other things.

Belief and faith are overused and misused words in my opinion. I'd say no living thing including humans have to hold any belief or have any faith of any kind whatsoever as a necessity to life or survival. Knowledge and understanding yes, belief and faith - no.

 

[stu]

Quote from loza:

It is better anthropomorphizing an eaglet than anthropomorphizing a god, to be a vicious, vindictive and republican loving entity who is a male. Who had an alleged son with a virgin and let him perish here on earth for a fickle, sordid mob who tortured him to death.

Better I think, if you did neither.

 

[jem]

belief - pretty well defined

hope - I prefer the catholic definition - it is what most people think of as having firm belief because they trust in something or someone.

Faith for me - is poorly defined when it refers to a set of rules guidelines or religion.

Faith is acting on ones hope or belief. (the eaglet flying was a great anaology)

Faith should be seen as a verb.

When one faithes one can transcend. By the way this does not have to be faith by acting on one of Gods promises but you might want to try it.

I would say it is also the faith ones has in putting a a trade because you have backtested in a rigorous manner or you have observed many times.

It may be paddling into a large wave and expecting to make it because you have confidence in your skills through experience.

I contrast faith based on experience with most of the zen bullshit that was being passed off as sport and trading psychology.

Without the foundation - telling yourself you are a great trader is bullshit. You have to be a solid trader to be become a great trader.

so in short faith is not over rated as the thread title suggests --- faith is the key to transcendence in many ares of life and life itself.

 

[peilthetraveler]

Everyone has Faith in something. The definition of faith is "Confidence or Trust in a person or thing"

Many of you have faith that the sun is at the center of the solar system because a book told you so. You aint been there, and im sure none of you did any calculations or looked through any telescopes and did any math calculations to figure out if the sun IS at the center of the solar system, but you have confidence in the people that wrote those books even though you dont know for sure because you never really checked it out yourself.

Its impossible to live in this world without faith. You have faith that tommorrow you will wake up. You have faith that you will eat a meal tommorrow.

 

[hermit]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Everyone has Faith in something. The definition of faith is "Confidence or Trust in a person or thing"

Many of you have faith that the sun is at the center of the solar system because a book told you so. You aint been there, and im sure none of you did any calculations or looked through any telescopes and did any math calculations to figure out if the sun IS at the center of the solar system, but you have confidence in the people that wrote those books even though you dont know for sure because you never really checked it out yourself.

Its impossible to live in this world without faith. You have faith that tommorrow you will wake up. You have faith that you will eat a meal tommorrow.

Nice setup to some bible thumping.

 

[stu]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Everyone has Faith in something. The definition of faith is "Confidence or Trust in a person or thing"

Many of you have faith that the sun is at the center of the solar system because a book told you so. You aint been there, and im sure none of you did any calculations or looked through any telescopes and did any math calculations to figure out if the sun IS at the center of the solar system, but you have confidence in the people that wrote those books even though you dont know for sure because you never really checked it out yourself.

Its impossible to live in this world without faith. You have faith that tommorrow you will wake up. You have faith that you will eat a meal tommorrow.

Not everyone has faith in something. The definition of faith is " A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny"

No one has to have any faith that the sun is at the center of the solar system.
You have your own basic understanding which can be formed into knowledge based upon reliable tested proven information, made available by people who did do those math calculations, are looking through telescopes and who thereby show and provide meaningful and practical information all about the sun.

Or you have your own basic understanding which can be formed upon a single special magical Book full of fantasy tales in which a Giant Galactic Goblin made everything and you make-believe it is the only thing that truly knows anything.
While at the same time in that pretentious nonsense, you go around using all those things possible only because of the understanding those who do the math and look through telescopes provide.

It's perfectly possible and often advisable to live in this world without faith.
You don't have 'faith' that tommorrow you will wake up. You may well be confident of it , but that itself doesn't require any faith.
There's an understanding too why it is likely you will. It's nothing to do with faith.

 

[unretired]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Everyone has Faith in something. The definition of faith is "Confidence or Trust in a person or thing"

Many of you have faith that the sun is at the center of the solar system because a book told you so. You aint been there, and im sure none of you did any calculations or looked through any telescopes and did any math calculations to figure out if the sun IS at the center of the solar system, but you have confidence in the people that wrote those books even though you dont know for sure because you never really checked it out yourself.

Its impossible to live in this world without faith. You have faith that tommorrow you will wake up. You have faith that you will eat a meal tommorrow.

Aptly said.