Sounds like you know the poker world. Couldn't one avoid the computers entirely and grind it out in AC/Vegas/etc.? Not saying that's a life many would find desirable, but I imagine there's a pretty consistent flow of stupid money in those games. What kind of income can be made there per hour (avoiding the high stakes/talent games)?
Failing traders: the merits of pursuing poker instead
- Thread starter applejuice
- Start date
Sounds like you know the poker world. Couldn't one avoid the computers entirely and grind it out in AC/Vegas/etc.? Not saying that's a life many would find desirable, but I imagine there's a pretty consistent flow of stupid money in those games. What kind of income can be made there per hour (avoiding the high stakes/talent games)?
To be honest, if you have been in trading , just realise that you have been given a golden opportunity to sort out whatever issues are getting you to fail as a trader.
I guess some people will say, just learn to give up, bla bla bla.
The truth, as I see it, is : just do the work on yourself so that you get there.
Poker will have the same issues ( technique, psychology, gambling risks).
Now, doing the work on oneself can include:
- at least one session of www.dhamma.org ( so as to face
the self-honesty required in trading)
- sticking to just one trading method/setup.
The moving average crossover is actually a very good one:
simple, and a good example of every method in trading works.
- just demoing till one is consistently profitable
I guess some people will say, just learn to give up, bla bla bla.
The truth, as I see it, is : just do the work on yourself so that you get there.
Poker will have the same issues ( technique, psychology, gambling risks).
Now, doing the work on oneself can include:
- at least one session of www.dhamma.org ( so as to face
the self-honesty required in trading)
- sticking to just one trading method/setup.
The moving average crossover is actually a very good one:
simple, and a good example of every method in trading works.
- just demoing till one is consistently profitable
''The moving average crossover is actually a very good one:
simple, and a good example of every method in trading works.''
if a moving average system worked as long as you had discipline etc, then why not just program it and take the emotions out of it, and make mountains of money?
simple, and a good example of every method in trading works.''
if a moving average system worked as long as you had discipline etc, then why not just program it and take the emotions out of it, and make mountains of money?
Thanks for the suggestions.
Obviously, in trading all is in the "details" of how every method in trading works!
For me that was a given. lol
I will just say this, the edges in poker are decreasing by the minute. Especially with the current climate in the US(virtually no online poker). The best grinders have gotten better, and their are less and less bad players(fish) at the table(online and live). Also there has a been a general trend of increasing rake and decreasing rakeback. The days of moving up in stakes, starting from the bottom and grinding up are gone. It used to be you could deposit a small roll and play against other novice players to learn the game and move up. Now the micros are filled with 20+ tablers from 3rd world countries who can earn a good living grinding out a few bb/hr. Hell, I know players who are mutitabling on Stars only for rakeback. With all that said, can't wait to get out to Vegas for the 1st week of the WSOP.
Yes, everyone of us experiences competition in business or even job, but still there are options: find more or less unique niche, use your strongest traits, implement innovations etc.
Trading or poker is basically a can of spiders: who eats who. Competitors in business can co-exist having market share of overall customers each. Brokers and money managers do just that. Traders don't.
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I am grateful to life for every lesson given. Result is always positive if we learn something.
I still believe there are edges in financial markets, but easiest are probably those described in "Random Walk Down Wall Street" and similar works (basically a bet on evolution of whole civilization with long-term innovation and added value).
The rest of edges maybe exist too, but certainly are much, much harder to exploit. Or maybe that's just me being unable to make it long-term at the same time feeling that other occupations are piece of cake compared.
I am grateful to life for every lesson given. Result is always positive if we learn something.
I still believe there are edges in financial markets, but easiest are probably those described in "Random Walk Down Wall Street" and similar works (basically a bet on evolution of whole civilization with long-term innovation and added value).
The rest of edges maybe exist too, but certainly are much, much harder to exploit. Or maybe that's just me being unable to make it long-term at the same time feeling that other occupations are piece of cake compared.
It sounds like you made a graceful departure from trading.
If you don't mind me asking, how many years did you spend learning and practising?
I am grateful to life for every lesson given. Result is always positive if we learn something.
I still believe there are edges in financial markets, but easiest are probably those described in "Random Walk Down Wall Street" and similar works (basically a bet on evolution of whole civilization with long-term innovation and added value).
The rest of edges maybe exist too, but certainly are much, much harder to exploit. Or maybe that's just me being unable to make it long-term at the same time feeling that other occupations are piece of cake compared.
Thanks. 99.9% of those who claim to make it longer term are lying or simply the survivors Who quit when ahead-- The market is designed to always win like the casino and will quickly morph or regulate away any real edge.
Brave of you to admit defeat, Cornix. I remember reading your posts here and on your private forum and you were somewhat of an inspiration that this might actually be possible.
I would seem that it's basically the same as playing roulette wheel. The spread and commissions are basically the '00' on the wheel.
I visited trade2win recently for the first time in about 6 years, and there's still lots of the same faces/names who are still unprofitable/losing money each week.
I'm yet to see someone who can consistently trade successfully over a long period of time and is able to prove it in years and years on various forums.
Each forum has a few gurus. Some of them get exposed as blatant scam artists/liars.
Some are just selling books/seminars to make money as they can't make money trading.
Some of them are genuine/well-intended people, but they later lose all of their money after running out of luck (lucky that their 'system' happened to fit the current market environment)
Some of them aren't selling anything, but seem to just want to have their ego stroked and love people looking upto them in the misguided belief that they are a successful, consistently profitable trader. (they are not actually profitable)
These people keep the dream alive.
I certainly agree that poker would be a much better idea. Better odds. The odds of making it in trading are so low that it wuold be like relying on a lottery win as a 'job'
It could be that nobody in history is able to do what most of us are trying to do here on elitetrader. Much more prescient information is required to make consistent profits which the retail are crowd are not privy too.
I would seem that it's basically the same as playing roulette wheel. The spread and commissions are basically the '00' on the wheel.
I visited trade2win recently for the first time in about 6 years, and there's still lots of the same faces/names who are still unprofitable/losing money each week.
I'm yet to see someone who can consistently trade successfully over a long period of time and is able to prove it in years and years on various forums.
Each forum has a few gurus. Some of them get exposed as blatant scam artists/liars.
Some are just selling books/seminars to make money as they can't make money trading.
Some of them are genuine/well-intended people, but they later lose all of their money after running out of luck (lucky that their 'system' happened to fit the current market environment)
Some of them aren't selling anything, but seem to just want to have their ego stroked and love people looking upto them in the misguided belief that they are a successful, consistently profitable trader. (they are not actually profitable)
These people keep the dream alive.
I certainly agree that poker would be a much better idea. Better odds. The odds of making it in trading are so low that it wuold be like relying on a lottery win as a 'job'
It could be that nobody in history is able to do what most of us are trying to do here on elitetrader. Much more prescient information is required to make consistent profits which the retail are crowd are not privy too.