Failed futures traders switching to equities

[stefan_777]

Saying futures trading is a losing game is like saying trading SPY or QQQQ or DIA etc is a losing game. If well capitalized with margin, trading these is the exact same as futures (ES,NQ,YM), except the commissions for stocks are usually a ripoff compared to futures.

If you can't trade the index ETFs with any success, you should stay on the simulator, because most stocks will be in synch with moves of the market, a smaller percentage will move against the market at any given time. If you take a position in a company and it gains, usually it's because the market moved in your favor as well.

Have fun on the simulator.

 

[sell_the_news]

Quote from ang_99:

You guys are nuts. Calm down everybody.

The only person on this thread that seems believable is xxxskier.


I would perhaps read his posts ud4l and ignore the rest of these turds.

I resent that!

 

[screenstruck]

If everyone had to pony up only 10 bucks a month to be here, a lot of noise would get removed. Unfortunately some great traders would also take offense and leave.

sigh....

 

[sell_the_news]

Quote from screenstruck:

If everyone had to pony up only 10 bucks a month to be here, a lot of noise would get removed. Unfortunately some great traders would also take offense and leave.

sigh....

AGREED. I WONDER HOW MANY ARE ACTUALLY LIVE VS SIM GAMERS?

 

[plyka]

Quote from ChkitOut:

WRONG AGAIN! Futures are negative sum. Take a look at the average futures traders transaction costs. EVERYBODY can theoretically lose.

Your post is in fact, meaningless. Stick to equities.

If you're claiming that commissions make futures a negative sum game --then i have a few responses:

1) Equities trading has the exact same problem then. If you include commissions then equities trading is also a negative sum game. The only positive force coming into equities is dividends. I'm sure that commissions outweigh dividends since the dividend rate is so low and for a trader the holding period is so short vs the number of trades they make.

2) If i buy 1 ZG contract it's work $93,000. The commissions on one round turn is like $5. The transaction cost vs the value of the trade is pretty close to meaningless.

Basically I'm not claiming that futures trading is awesome and equities trading sucks. It's not a rational statement, and i'm not 5 years old. What I'm saying is that both have merit and it all depends on the individual. You may be great at trading equities and suck at futures. That's fine. It all depends on what you as an individual are good at.

 

[xxxskier]

Quote from screenstruck:

If everyone had to pony up only 10 bucks a month to be here, a lot of noise would get removed. Unfortunately some great traders would also take offense and leave.

sigh....

i go thru periods where i don't come to ET at all.

the only reason i return is that there are a handful of posters here that put some real gems up. beleive it or not but i've picked up a some great tidbits over the years, but recently the value i derive from ET has been much less.

i suspect that with the markets as crazy as they have been the last 6-8 months or so more traders have blown-out and others have struggled more then usual, and anyone just starting out in the last 8 months or so has had a real uphill battle. therefore, i'm not suprised to see the huge increase in bitterness and the increased number of, 'no one can win' accusations.

i get frustrated by this and at times i need to take break from ET to get away from all the pessimism and negative energy. but i have to admit, however predatory it may sound, that winning traders need losing traders.

so please continue trading.


a controversial book written by a futures trader, "The Art of the Trade", says it well, read it and learn how the losers operate and then do the opposite. the author is arrogant but shrewd.

here's an interesting tidbit from that book:

p 125

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
....the avg. losing futures trader will wait to exit a position until the loss is somewhere between 60% to equal of the initiating margin requirement amount against him/her. if you want a good idea of where stop orders are building for the liquidation point, calculate what initial margin would mean in price action from the point you believed the loser got in at. (he goes on to give an example).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

and my favorite quote from the market wizard books was from ed seykota .....i like it even better then his famous, "everyone gets what they want" quote. when schwager asked ed what a losing trader can do to transform himself into a winning trader, seykota replied, " A losing trader can do little to transform himself into a winning trader...a losing trader is not going to want to transform himself"

and if that makes no sense to you, then you have an especially difficult road ahead of you. trading is hard enough, but most people make it harder by being their own worse enemy.

 

[xxxskier]

Quote from ChkitOut:

Oh yeah big shot?


What advice can you offer? Huh? Tell us idiots how to trade futures..

Oh wait let me guess, "cut your losers short, let your winners run" "price action only" blah blah blah... useless drivel.

You're an idiot.

i realize i'm stepping into a pit of extreme negative energy by even responding to you but i couldn't help myself.......

first, u seem so angry that you can't even see straight. check the pnl thread for blotters.

second, i have seen with my own eyes, a very profitable futures trader actually train, mentor and basically give exact entry and exit calls to a struggling trader and the struggling trader will still not achieve consistency.

ever hear of the following trading aptitude test?......it goes like something like this:

someone gives you the most profitable trading system in the world, it's absolutely guaranteed to turn a huge profit on an annual basis....the most rigorous backtesting ever, yada yada, etc..
BUT, there is one catch. it calls for only one single entry and one single exit for the entire year.

what percentage of traders would screw it up by....being inpatient and jumping the gun, or "tinkering with it to make it better, etc? the answer to this question: the same percentage of traders who are already failing.

 

[screenstruck]

You sure you were addressing me or the OP?

I would love to continue trading as it adds nicely to my lifestyle. Trading outright futures/equities is too much work for me. I would like to thank all of those traders here who pointed me towards spreads.

The best advice I was given was to find a style/instrument that suits my personality. I thought that that was just a generic blow off and it took me a couple of years to appreciate it.

My only regret is having to shovel too much shit on this website to find my pony.

trade well....

Quote from xxxskier:

i go thru periods where i don't come to ET at all.

the only reason i return is that there are a handful of posters here that put some real gems up. beleive it or not but i've picked up a some great tidbits over the years, but recently the value i derive from ET has been much less.

i suspect that with the markets as crazy as they have been the last 6-8 months or so more traders have blown-out and others have struggled more then usual, and anyone just starting out in the last 8 months or so has had a real uphill battle. therefore, i'm not suprised to see the huge increase in bitterness and the increased number of, 'no one can win' accusations.

i get frustrated by this and at times i need to take break from ET to get away from all the pessimism and negative energy. but i have to admit, however predatory it may sound, that winning traders need losing traders.

so please continue trading.


a controversial book written by a futures trader, "The Art of the Trade", says it well, read it and learn how the losers operate and then do the opposite. the author is arrogant but shrewd.

here's an interesting tidbit from that book:

p 125

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
....the avg. losing futures trader will wait to exit a position until the loss is somewhere between 60% to equal of the initiating margin requirement amount against him/her. if you want a good idea of where stop orders are building for the liquidation point, calculate what initial margin would mean in price action from the point you believed the loser got in at. (he goes on to give an example).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

and my favorite quote from the market wizard books was from ed seykota .....i like it even better then his famous, "everyone gets what they want" quote. when schwager asked ed what a losing trader can do to transform himself into a winning trader, seykota replied, " A losing trader can do little to transform himself into a winning trader...a losing trader is not going to want to transform himself"

and if that makes no sense to you, then you have an especially difficult road ahead of you. trading is hard enough, but most people make it harder by being their own worse enemy.

 

[Nexen]

Quote from ChkitOut:

WRONG AGAIN! Futures are negative sum. Take a look at the average futures traders transaction costs. EVERYBODY can theoretically lose.

Your post is in fact, meaningless. Stick to equities.

I do consistently well trading a particular stock index ETF and when I need the leverage I use its future counterpart to reduce commission.

Honestly, I got no idea where you coming from with your arguments.

 

[TraDaToR]

Quote from plyka:


1) Equities trading has the exact same problem then. If you include commissions then equities trading is also a negative sum game. The only positive force coming into equities is dividends. I'm sure that commissions outweigh dividends since the dividend rate is so low and for a trader the holding period is so short vs the number of trades they make.

The big difference to me is not in dividends, it's in rebates. That's why I still try to trade stocks. If you make volume, you can make money even if you are gross flat or slightly negative.