What?
PT don't get this sent to P&R.
FACT: The U.S. is bankrupt! Yes, bankrupt!
- Thread starter mutluit
- Start date
What?
PT don't get this sent to P&R.
Uh oh, that is Keynesian talk. If I were you I would lock my door and pull the shades.
Lord Keynes is not too popular around these here parts.
The Chinese will stop lending when the USA stops buying.
How about a fire sale of USA assetts ?
That's what happens to bankrupts.
Don't forget Alaska was bought off the Russians and was it Louisiana off the French ?
Very poor leadership imho to ever get into such a sorry mess. And Obama is still ploughing ahead with more big money spending projects !!??
I wouldn't put the current administration in charge of the girls under 16 basket ball team
This might be of interest
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According to the results of the limited Fed audit mentioned above, a total of $16.1 trillion in secret loans were made by the Federal Reserve between December 1, 2007 and July 21, 2010.
The following is a list of loan recipients that was taken directly from page 131 of the audit report....
Citigroup - $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC - $868 billion
Bear Sterns - $853 billion
Goldman Sachs - $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase - $391 billion
Deutsche Bank - $354 billion
UBS - $287 billion
Credit Suisse - $262 billion
Lehman Brothers - $183 billion
Bank of Scotland - $181 billion
BNP Paribas - $175 billion
Wells Fargo - $159 billion
Dexia - $159 billion
Wachovia - $142 billion
Dresdner Bank - $135 billion
Societe Generale - $124 billion
"All Other Borrowers" - $2.639 trillion
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Ooops Bear Sterns, Royal Bank of Scotland and Lehman's went bust soon after !!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the results of the limited Fed audit mentioned above, a total of $16.1 trillion in secret loans were made by the Federal Reserve between December 1, 2007 and July 21, 2010.
The following is a list of loan recipients that was taken directly from page 131 of the audit report....
Citigroup - $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley - $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch - $1.949 trillion
Bank of America - $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC - $868 billion
Bear Sterns - $853 billion
Goldman Sachs - $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland - $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase - $391 billion
Deutsche Bank - $354 billion
UBS - $287 billion
Credit Suisse - $262 billion
Lehman Brothers - $183 billion
Bank of Scotland - $181 billion
BNP Paribas - $175 billion
Wells Fargo - $159 billion
Dexia - $159 billion
Wachovia - $142 billion
Dresdner Bank - $135 billion
Societe Generale - $124 billion
"All Other Borrowers" - $2.639 trillion
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Ooops Bear Sterns, Royal Bank of Scotland and Lehman's went bust soon after !!
that fed article made a good point about the FED saying it did not have to respond to foia requests because it was not a govt agency.
and
this is on the net as well..
this is a 9th circuit cases apparently saying the FED is a private bank... I did not read the whole case nor have I shepardized it... ... but having read a thousand or so cases I would say it looks real.
https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/680/680.F2d.1239.80-5905.html
John L. LEWIS, Plaintiff/Appellant,
v.
UNITED STATES of America, Defendant/Appellee.
No. 80-5905.
United States Court of Appeals,
Ninth Circuit.
Submitted March 2, 1982.
Decided April 19, 1982.
As Amended June 24, 1982.
Lafayette L. Blair, Compton, Cal., for plaintiff/appellant.
James R. Sullivan, Asst. U. S. Atty., Los Angeles, Cal., argued, for defendant/appellee; Andrea Sheridan Ordin, U. S. Atty., Los Angeles, Cal., on brief.
Appeal from the United States District Court for the Central District of California.
Before POOLE and BOOCHEVER, Circuit Judges, and SOLOMON, District Judge.*
POOLE, Circuit Judge:
....
11
The fact that the Federal Reserve Board regulates the Reserve Banks does not make them federal agencies under the Act. In United States v. Orleans, 425 U.S. 807, 96 S.Ct. 1971, 48 L.Ed.2d 390 (1976), the Supreme Court held that a community action agency was not a federal agency or instrumentality for purposes of the Act, even though the agency was organized under federal regulations and heavily funded by the federal government. Because the agency's day to day operation was not supervised by the federal government, but by local officials, the Court refused to extend federal tort liability for the negligence of the agency's employees. Similarly, the Federal Reserve Banks, though heavily regulated, are locally controlled by their member banks. Unlike typical federal agencies, each bank is empowered to hire and fire employees at will. Bank employees do not participate in the Civil Service Retirement System. They are covered by worker's compensation insurance, purchased by the Bank, rather than the Federal Employees Compensation Act. Employees traveling on Bank business are not subject to federal travel regulations and do not receive government employee discounts on lodging and services.
12
The Banks are listed neither as "wholly owned" government corporations under 31 U.S.C. § 846 nor as "mixed ownership" corporations under 31 U.S.C. § 856, a factor considered in Pearl v. United States, 230 F.2d 243 (10th Cir. 1956), which held that the Civil Air Patrol is not a federal agency under the Act. Closely resembling the status of the Federal Reserve Bank, the Civil Air Patrol is a non-profit, federally chartered corporation organized to serve the public welfare. But because Congress' control over the Civil Air Patrol is limited and the corporation is not designated as a wholly owned or mixed ownership government corporation under 31 U.S.C. §§ 846 and 856, the court concluded that the corporation is a non-governmental, independent entity, not covered under the Act.
13
Additionally, Reserve Banks, as privately owned entities, receive no appropriated funds from Congress. Cf. Goddard v. District of Columbia Redevelopment Land Agency, 287 F.2d 343, 345 (D.C.Cir.1961), cert. denied, 366 U.S. 910, 81 S.Ct. 1085, 6 L.Ed.2d 235 (1961) (court held land redevelopment agency was federal agency for purposes of the Act in large part because agency received direct appropriated funds from Congress.)
14
and
this is on the net as well..
this is a 9th circuit cases apparently saying the FED is a private bank... I did not read the whole case nor have I shepardized it... ... but having read a thousand or so cases I would say it looks real.
https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/680/680.F2d.1239.80-5905.html
John L. LEWIS, Plaintiff/Appellant,
v.
UNITED STATES of America, Defendant/Appellee.
No. 80-5905.
United States Court of Appeals,
Ninth Circuit.
Submitted March 2, 1982.
Decided April 19, 1982.
As Amended June 24, 1982.
Lafayette L. Blair, Compton, Cal., for plaintiff/appellant.
James R. Sullivan, Asst. U. S. Atty., Los Angeles, Cal., argued, for defendant/appellee; Andrea Sheridan Ordin, U. S. Atty., Los Angeles, Cal., on brief.
Appeal from the United States District Court for the Central District of California.
Before POOLE and BOOCHEVER, Circuit Judges, and SOLOMON, District Judge.*
POOLE, Circuit Judge:
....
11
The fact that the Federal Reserve Board regulates the Reserve Banks does not make them federal agencies under the Act. In United States v. Orleans, 425 U.S. 807, 96 S.Ct. 1971, 48 L.Ed.2d 390 (1976), the Supreme Court held that a community action agency was not a federal agency or instrumentality for purposes of the Act, even though the agency was organized under federal regulations and heavily funded by the federal government. Because the agency's day to day operation was not supervised by the federal government, but by local officials, the Court refused to extend federal tort liability for the negligence of the agency's employees. Similarly, the Federal Reserve Banks, though heavily regulated, are locally controlled by their member banks. Unlike typical federal agencies, each bank is empowered to hire and fire employees at will. Bank employees do not participate in the Civil Service Retirement System. They are covered by worker's compensation insurance, purchased by the Bank, rather than the Federal Employees Compensation Act. Employees traveling on Bank business are not subject to federal travel regulations and do not receive government employee discounts on lodging and services.
12
The Banks are listed neither as "wholly owned" government corporations under 31 U.S.C. § 846 nor as "mixed ownership" corporations under 31 U.S.C. § 856, a factor considered in Pearl v. United States, 230 F.2d 243 (10th Cir. 1956), which held that the Civil Air Patrol is not a federal agency under the Act. Closely resembling the status of the Federal Reserve Bank, the Civil Air Patrol is a non-profit, federally chartered corporation organized to serve the public welfare. But because Congress' control over the Civil Air Patrol is limited and the corporation is not designated as a wholly owned or mixed ownership government corporation under 31 U.S.C. §§ 846 and 856, the court concluded that the corporation is a non-governmental, independent entity, not covered under the Act.
13
Additionally, Reserve Banks, as privately owned entities, receive no appropriated funds from Congress. Cf. Goddard v. District of Columbia Redevelopment Land Agency, 287 F.2d 343, 345 (D.C.Cir.1961), cert. denied, 366 U.S. 910, 81 S.Ct. 1085, 6 L.Ed.2d 235 (1961) (court held land redevelopment agency was federal agency for purposes of the Act in large part because agency received direct appropriated funds from Congress.)
14
One fire sale option might be to sell Washington DC to China but there should be a clause that they would not be able to give anybody back for at least 100 years. The downside would be that there would be no effective decision making on matters of national importance. (Of course, right now it appears that there is no effective decision making on matters of national importance. So it seems that there is little downside risk!)
I (really!) heard from a couple of citizens last fall that all the money for the campaigns was coming from China to buy the US elections. I thought it was a joke but they were serious and heard it in the media - I knew then it couldn't be true! Perhaps start an international bidding war and run the price way up!
Apparently to talk of wealthy people taking over the world is considered crazy talk but to talk of purchasing US elections candidates directly is not! What a world we live in.
Strictly going by observation, shouldn't it be:
spend when times are bad
spend when times are good
increase spending when times are really bad
when things have been bad for 20 years max out you credit card and spend like there is no tomorrow while telling others please do not worry
The problem with letting the market tell us when too much has been borrowed is that in my opinion it is most likely to be a huge multiple sigma event with hysteresis. If HFT and flash crash elements occurred, it could be all over in nanoseconds. (Before anyone could say WTF ....)