Facing our demons

Quote from drsteph:


#3. Here's the big bad one - fear of blowing up in the markets like my father (an old floor trader) did - big time. As in the whole family fortune. [/B]

drsteph - Would you be willing to shed some more light on what happened? (to benefit us all in knowing how to possibly avoid such a particular fate)
 
Quote from drsteph:

OK, here are my personal demons:

#1. Can't pull the trigger - analysis paralysis
I'm obscessed with capital preservation at this stage of my trading. Passing up many good opportunities for safer, slower plays. Not really a flaw, but I want more faster for the percieved risk I am taking!

#2. Permabear (getting over that one).

#3. Here's the big bad one - fear of blowing up in the markets like my father (an old floor trader) did - big time. As in the whole family fortune. Hence, my lack of willingness to pull the trigger, desire to rely on mechanical trading systems, etc...

Only time and success will get me over that last one, so I remain content to take small gains and pocket them in the hopes of creating a sufficient free option with my winnings that I can trade without the emotional overlay.

Were it me I would re-lable your #3 my #1 as the other two are dervatives of it.
You are not your father, you may well never know what was on his mind or in his mind when he blew up even though the family has probabaly passed down some credible story. You are not your father, you have seen more, know more, there is no reason to accept whatever limitations or life dynamics he endured as your own. You are not your father, you can stop gifting yourself with his shortcomings anytime. That doesn't mean you have to not honor his being your father.
 
Quote from Old School:

I find it interesting that no one has mentioned how much more money they could make if they rid of their #1 demon.

I know for myself it was a LOT of money and well worth coming to terms with. That's what drove me to face mine.

You seem to be going somewhere with this, I'll bite. My trading is no longer emotionally bounded. It's that "most men live their lives in quiet desperation" thing that is all too true for many. Everybody makes choices concious or subconcious, far fewer people want to grab the ring than say they do.
 
My #1 demon is laziness. Out of every 5 moves I anticipate largely correctly, I maybe profit properly from 1 or 2, and let 3 slip by simply due to not working hard enough or properly preparing for them. If anyone has a good cure for this, I'd be interested (and pay good money if it works).
 
Quote from austinp:

<i>"My #1 trading demon: Overtrading a dull market instead of patiently waiting for real opportunities."</i>

Ditto, <b>Reardon</b>. It's the AADD part of me. I make money hand over fist in high volatility, active market periods due to quick decisions and (controlled) impulsive behavior. Fast moving markets are my "zone" where trading is easy and money piles up fast.

Dull markets test my patience, test the personal weaknesses. Because I'm geared to fast-market action, learning to manage trades correctly and take fewer of them in dull markets is a chore. I backed off to longer timeframe charts for intraday trading while VIX is in a coma here. They work during high volatility, too.

Highly active markets = easy money for me. The personal improvement part I continually work on is performance (small losses, greater profits) thru dull market periods. Some traders excel in dull periods with sideways tactics but freeze or fall apart when tapes go normal or get wild.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses, which the market will quickly point out.

The solution: Trade several markets. There's always one hot...
 
Quote from Cutten:

My #1 demon is laziness. Out of every 5 moves I anticipate largely correctly, I maybe profit properly from 1 or 2, and let 3 slip by simply due to not working hard enough or properly preparing for them. If anyone has a good cure for this, I'd be interested (and pay good money if it works).

Cutten,
I was a professional yoga/meditation instructor for 10 years. This sequence has proved helpful in dealing with many of the main psychological issues - trading or otherwise (including the one you mentioned).

Takes about half an hour, ideally done morning and evening, but especially before work.

Have a cool shower, then,
Yoga Poses:
1)a) Sarvaungasana (3 rounds up to 5 minutes per round - counterpose with 2)) http://www.newhelp.org/cyru_eng/IMG_ASANAS/16baseng.htm

2) Matsyamudra (3 rounds - held for half the length of time as 1) (i.e. max of 2.5 minutes). Simply stay cross legged as the pictured version is difficult to do in the beginning.
http://www.newhelp.org/cyru_eng/IMG_ASANAS/11Baseng.htm

3) Naokasana - 8 rounds, 8 seconds each round, holding the state of inhalation when extended back.
http://www.newhelp.org/cyru_eng/IMG_ASANAS/13Baseng.htm

4) Utkata Pascimottasana - 8 rounds, 8 seconds each round, holding the state of exhalation when fully forward.
http://www.newhelp.org/cyru_eng/IMG_ASANAS/22aseng.htm
(they have mixed up the drawing on this pose but if you select back you can see a picture of it in the middle - the description on its practice is correct)

Followed by lying down in complete rest. (shavasana-google it, it's the same pose in all the schools of yoga)
Meditation.
Send the money to your favourite charity(ies).
 
Laziness?

Wow. What are people thinking these days?

The LT ratio of successful traders to unsuccessful traders haven't changed in a loooong time. For as long as I can remember, it's been somewhere around 5-10% successful - at best! The unsuccessful 90-95% aren't exactly idiots either. Traders are usually some of the most intelligent people out there. And you think you can go up against these people who eat, sleep, and shit this stuff?

I applaud your honesty since you are willing to admit that you're lazy, but at the same time, I'd love to give you a swift kick in the ass for thinking this business will reward you for being lazy. You need some serious adjustment in your attitude.

What did those missed trades cost you? Isn't it worth it to try ANYthing to remove that thorn?
 
Quote from Old School:

My #1 demon over the years was large losses from a single trade.

I had no problem making money, I just couldn't keep it sometimes because at some point I'd blow up on a trade and give most of it back, sometimes into the red.
Just an observation, if I may. You may wish to ensure that the manner in which you trade does not actually require the kind of exposure that eventually results in your sizeable losses. If that is the case, then your issues extend beyond psychology. So, are your blow-ups merely unfortunate aberrations on your part, or are they actually a circumstance of the manner in which you trade that originally made you money in the first place? It's worth considering, just to be sure.

As for me, fear is my demon. It wasn't so when I first started trading several years ago. However, I had lost a fairly large proportion of my trading capital in a very short period of time some years back, to the point where the glass was more empty than full. Staring at the bottom of that glass was a sobering experience. Although I work on it in different ways and have mitigated it to a fair degree, the feeling has never completely subsided and manifests itself in different ways at different times. Regardless of the manner in which it may rear its head, fear is at its root. It has slowed my progress, however, it has also ensured my survival. I guess it comes down to balance. It's hard to get it just right.
 
Quote from Old School:

Laziness?

Wow. What are people thinking these days?

The LT ratio of successful traders to unsuccessful traders haven't changed in a loooong time. For as long as I can remember, it's been somewhere around 5-10% successful - at best! The unsuccessful 90-95% aren't exactly idiots either. Traders are usually some of the most intelligent people out there. And you think you can go up against these people who eat, sleep, and shit this stuff?



I disagree. The barriers to entry are quite low so pretty much anyone can trade if they want and a lot of these 90% unsuccessful probably haven't done enough.
 
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