As long as they are being replaced by more educated, better quality, cheaper foreigners I don't see a problem with this... if we are to be part of the dynamic capitalist free market, we should quit complaining if we don't win all the time...
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Exporting jobs
- Thread starter UVLC
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As long as they are being replaced by more educated, better quality, cheaper foreigners I don't see a problem with this... if we are to be part of the dynamic capitalist free market, we should quit complaining if we don't win all the time...
Quote from candletrader:
As long as they are being replaced by more educated, better quality, cheaper foreigners I don't see a problem with this...
The are not more educated, they are not better quality. They are cheaper because they come from a third world country. They come from an area where the salary differences are 6 to 1.
I'm not against these people coming here to better themselves; but not at the expense of American citizens.
My problem is our federal government, the so-called elected leaders created these programs for corporate America; the corporations funding their campaigns.
It's no wonder we have a jobless recovery.
In our case we were ordered by management to train our foreign replacement workers. Siemens held out a carrot for the Americans; stay on and train your replacements and we'll give you a severance when you leave.
Our Congress created non-immigrant temporary worker programs that are being used to transfer knowledge from Americans to foreigners. Once the knowledge is transfered the jobs can be moved abroad.
I do not think this is fair to American citizens. If they want to "outsource" go on get out of here. I will then decide who I want to do business with. But our congress allowing corporations to use American citizens to train foreign replacements on Congressionally sanctioned temporary work visas is not fair to American citizens.
Our replacements even documented what Americans were ordered to train them. They called these documents "Knowledge Transition".
We sent these(800 documents) to the DOL, DOJ, INS, BCIS, our US Rep. John Mica and US Senators Bill Nelson and Bob Graham.
Bill Nelson said on the WKMG CBS Orlando news report "If it is displacement of American workers then they are breaking the law".
Senator Nelson has NEVER, not once replied to any of our letters, faxes, phone calls or office visits. NADA, not one reply. IMO, He went on TV and lied. The online video is here http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/video/WKMG_Tuesday_20030218.wmv
All 3 said if this is what is happening then this is not the intent of the law. YET, they refuse to do anything about it.
...Because, IMO, the corporations fund their campaigns.
utter Treason, IMO
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/video/
Quote from troup1998:
Thank you for posting our story of replacement.
We have worked extremely hard to notify America of the gross injustice our Congress has inflicted on American citizens.
In our Business Week article our replacement company Tata Consulting India reported having 5000 L-1 visa holders
http://www.outsourcecongress.org/USA/BusinessWeek/Business_Week_Siemens.html
The replacement of well educated high-tech American workers is epidemic across America. The companies replacing Americans with visa holders is a who's who of the fortune 1000.
CIO magazine 9/1/04
http://www.outsourcecongress.org/USA/CIO_20030901.html
Over the past 18 months I have learned alot about the crooks in DC. They do not care for you nor I nor the economy nor our children.
They care about getting re-elected and corporate campaign donations are their ticket.
When we contacted our representative John L. Mica, 20 days later he was banging on the doors of Siemens. 20 days later he was cashing campaign checks from Siemens.
At the same time he was lying to us that he would help his constituents. In fact he called me at my house and told me he would help us; of course that was before the '02 election He never did; he only wanted to shut us up so he could get re-elected.
John Mica(R) is status quo in DC.
Democrats want to flood this country with poor people(illegal or legal) because poor people vote democratic.
Republicans just want cheap labor for the corporations.
Of course, Flooding the supply of workers suppresses wages.
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/
News videos regarding replacement of American workers
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/video/
My 9 month diary with John Mica's office
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/mica/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/mica/Mica_L1.html
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/mica/Mica_Contributions.html
The only member of Congress actively speaking out for American workers. CO Rep. Tom Tancredo(R)
http://www.OutsourceCongress/rep/tancredo/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/rep/
140+ Congressional members supporting the best interests of India
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/rep/indiapac/
WA Rep Jay Inslee tells the India press "We will not stop giving you jobs"
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/rep/inslee/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/rep/mcdermott/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/rep/kirk/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/rep/adamsmith/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/rep/stearns/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/rep/crane/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/senator/lautenberg/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/senator/clinton/
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/rep/eshoo/
India PAC(Political Action Committee) Chairman; a democrat supporting the interests of India's business community.
http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/rep/crowley/
I suggest you tune into CNN Lou Dobbs, his "Exporting America" series is right on target. Watch some recorded videos online http://www.OutsourceCongress.org/video/
thanks for the recorded video(s) link
Lou Dobbs has really done a service to the public and to us as the Investing Public by having that show/segment expose all the rest of what we don't see....
Quote from dddooo:
What's so hard to understand? Where did I talk about poverty? The whole point is that they live almost like royalty if they are making $5hr. And of course in USA it's way below poverty level. Their living standard at $5hr is similar to American living standard at $50hr.
That's exactly why the playing field isn't level and with all the rest equal (i.e. education and experience) Americans have no chance competing.
Why are you so concerned with American labor policies anyway? You're not in this country are you, what's your problem? One of those America-hating Europeans, who'd be ecstatic if American unemployment doubled and living standard plummeted, are you not? People discussing here may have different opinions but they at least have best American interests at heart. You obviously do not.
Uhm also, I did not want to mention earlier but I grew up in Moscow and still have relatives there. A lot of what you say is not exactly right.
The majority does live in poverty but many necessities are subsidized. The living standard, however is much much lower than let's say someone on welfare in USA.
So please, stop. You pointed out an important point but overall you do not know what you are talking about.
Quote from troup1998:
I do not think this is fair to American citizens. If they want to "outsource" go on get out of here. I will then decide who I want to do business with. But our congress allowing corporations to use American citizens to train foreign replacements on Congressionally sanctioned temporary work visas is not fair to American citizens.
Great post BTW and I especially agree with that statement.
If these companies want to outsource so badly, they should move the fuck outta here. I think a serious law needs to be passed that requires the companies to have a certain percentage employed from the country they claim to be in. This country is on its way to become a nation filled with corporations and millions of unemployed people.
Quote from chasinfla:
from the Fortune Magazine interview, posted here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1051078/posts
Excellent article. I do not agree 100% but I completely comprehend his stance.
Quote from Mecro:
Uhm also, I did not want to mention earlier but I grew up in Moscow and still have relatives there. A lot of what you say is not exactly right.
The majority does live in poverty but many necessities are subsidized. The living standard, however is much much lower than let's say someone on welfare in USA.
The majority in Russia does live in powerty, I never said anything different. And the necessitites are subsidized and living standard is way lower than that in the USA. That's exactly what I stated in my previous post.
And that's exactly why $5hr or $10K per year is a royal compensation for them. Do you disagree that they are happy to work for $5hr be it IT, engineering or accounting? Cause this is the only point I was making. And of course Americans cannot compete with that.
Quote from madf:
It's simple market economics.
I find it strange that this subject is even discussed in the US which after all is the champion of the free market.
Surely the US is the champion of the free market still or is it the "free market as long as it does not affect our standards of living"?
this has nothing to do with "free markets" - if it were a "free market" then the Indians and Chinese working for $5/hr. would just move to the US and get paid $60/hr. to do the same job. the majority of them can't, and that's the linchpin of the racket.
this is not competition - competition implies a level playing field and equal opportunities. this is profiteering bordering on exploitation. outsourced wages are lower not because of market forces, but because the workers do not enjoy the infrastructure, legal systems, and social organizations built and funded by US citizens (the same infrastructure necessary for the outsourcing corporations to form and exist).
that said, the Indians and Chinese are far from stupid - it will be interesting to see how long they allow this to continue before using what they've learned to eliminate the American middleman and just produce the stuff themselves.
Quote from FireWalker:
That's interesting about Dell.
I'm currently working a contract for a major multinational company. Helping them shut down the IT, customer service, and admin departments of a recent acquisition. About 400 people will be out of work soon.
All IT except Level 1 and 2 support is going to India.
Customer service is consolidating in the US.
since we don't know you, then tell us which company this is?