Experienced futures scalpers: Chart or DOM

[Mercor]

Quote from marketsurfer:

FX dealers have promoted "on chart" order entry for years. FX dealers profit when you lose, think there is a correlation?

Since a large majority of traders lose I think there are other correlations that are more relevant.
No doji has no intention of trading only from DOM data. She is a slave to the EMA 20. You may have a method. using only DOM. I find trading DOM more challenging. I am always looking for knowledge from traders who have better insights into Dom trading.
The Jigsaw was interesting but not convincing.

 

[Zr1Trader]

For DOM.

I like seeing cumulative depth and seeing which side has more orders on DOM. Thats about all I get out of it and it's fun to see big orders flashed too. As for seeing where I'm at in line. The bid ask on the chart trader works fine.

Majority of my focus is on the chart when I'm making an order entry. I like to get my limit order ready "in hand" once my pattern signal occurs and am on alert for my entry signal. Then I usually put my limit right on the bid and wait , if it's not hit in 3-5 seconds I'll hit the other side.

I love chart trader , used it for the last 5 years.

As far as I can tell, ninjatrader has the best On the chart trader platform so far.

Just opened account at IB the other week and their chart trader doesn't appeal to me as much on their TWS . I may have a bias though since I'm just used to Ninja.


Once size becomes more of an issue you may need your Dom again to see a level or two beyond the bid ask to see if you'll get filled in the next 2-3 ticks. Wouldn't that be a nice problem to have

 

[FCXoptions]

I know I have basically zero experience with real time trading off the chart, but I really have liked doing it on Sierra chart while replaying charts. It's so easy to click and drag limit orders and stops to whatever level you would like if need be. Changing quantity is easy also, just click the number on the chart and you can type in whatever quantity you want. A simple click on the X can cancel the order as well.

 

[jack hershey]

Donna:

I do my charts in a way that the "highlights" disappear as information flows to the computer.

This makes the display an "anticipator" and you can trade off the chart as well.

The work cited by surf was already "succeeded" by more advanced anticipators before the reference started to be sold. See the formulae and pane display of the Stretch/Squeeze all based on a newer substitute for the Premium ofrom the well known riskarb.com site.

By displaying a pane of the ingredieants of three value systems (the Premium substitute, the DOM and the T&S) in a two sub pane pane you move your attention to the sweet spot just ahead of the Present where the future comes into the Present.

I have a term for all of this that I do not use in public. The term describes when the context, situation and condition is achieved which is "certain" and where the limit of making money is coming up several human routine monitoring cycles before the Present.

It is a gate of sorts that can be flagged on a screen display (what you call trading off the chart through to the API of your broker trading platform).

I recommend housing your code on a remote server closer to the broker and markets than you are. Let the flag on your display tell you to act with your broker, or better still, stop surpressing the flags that will show show up on your screen by clicking your screen to end the suppression and have it sent directly to your broker trading desk.

This is a comment in the "failsafe" portion of using trading systems.

I do not know why the surf reference people do not use a failsafe orientation. There are typos in their web comments so they must be pretty closed minded about QA.

The most dynamic parts of markets are found well before the Present. Actual T&S is small compared to the leading indicators of price (My trend drivers)

Long ago I had to work through the "color" on displays. My longest code snippets are for displaying the color and they are used on all subordinant display panes.

The strtech/squeeze invention is so sensitive that a 20ema looks like a six lane highway when it is included on the S/S display dual sub pane display pane. I'll look around for several illustrations for you. The order book has many games played upon it. By merging the indiviual games into one decision tree, you can have "certainty" and then click you chart to release your excution coding on remote servers near the market.

I know this seems backwards to most (and that is good that they do not learn from this because their processes are like surf's, not good enough to make it)) BUT, in the final analysis, it is the failsafe way to go.

Great thread, I hope it doesn't get moved to chit chat because I posted. If they plan that, just have my posts deleted instead.

In a nutshell. Use your chart and click it on the forming bar to end surpressing sending your precoded trading action from your server based coded API connection to your IB's trading desk.

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from Mercor:

Since a large majority of traders lose I think there are other correlations that are more relevant.
No doji has no intention of trading only from DOM data. She is a slave to the EMA 20. You may have a method. using only DOM. I find trading DOM more challenging. I am always looking for knowledge from traders who have better insights into Dom trading.
The Jigsaw was interesting but not convincing.

Good points. Maybe, for those who insist on charts, a combination of chart reading along with computer assisted pre transactional DOM reading would create a huge edge. knowing what is happening before it prints is powerful. Although, i don't understand using charts for trading decisions as computers don't need them-- only humans. pure data is only corrupted by making it easy to read by humans.

surf

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from jack hershey:

Donna:

I do my charts in a way that the "highlights" disappear as information flows to the computer.

You are misusing computer power to create a visual representation of past price to apply subjective interpretation to. Computers don't need charts, why do you use them? Charts are only for humans. think about it. surf

 

[HopelessTrader]

Quote from NoDoji:

I'm an intraday scalper trading CL and ES (10-25 trades daily) using a DOM to place and manage trades. I'm considering switching to trading directly on the chart.

I'm looking for feedback from experienced (>3 years) intraday futures scalpers who've traded on a DOM and directly on a chart comparing the pros and cons of the two methods.

The Olsen sisters, when it's time to get down to business, I want them both.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from marketsurfer:

You are misusing computer power to create a visual representation of past price to apply subjective interpretation to. Computers don't need charts, why do you use them? Charts are only for humans. think about it. surf

You are correct. Computers do not need charts. Computers know this as well.

Charts are created by computer programming as almost everyone knows.

I do not use charts actually. I have them certainly and they are there along with 10 to 12 other leading indicators of price (I call them trend drivers as you well know). Instead, I use information and the computers capability to process data in the Present only. ONLY the PRESENT.

What I created were the 56 names of any kind of possible bar representation. these 56 elements fall into three subsets : volume, price and End Effects.

The End Effects stste profit taking points before price and time get to the point. The End Effects fall into 11 subsets. subsets of 14 and 13 are the largest. Some are singletons. All the contents and distribution of elements in sub sets are defined mathematically.

All are defined specifically and mathematically in the mathematics of the markets (See toher posts for the mathmatician's work I use) under the headings of criteria, filters, formulae, rules, strategies, baskets and libraries.

On my display the forming bar, in the Present, is displayed according to the constraints of situations, context and conditions of the Present. As a bar forms its name can change during the formation (only in the Present). This transition the forming bar makes comes to an end before the bar ends. Most of the time, the trend driver test that is done all during the PRESENT is a signal that the trend is OCONTINUING and not, orthogonally, CHANGING.

The past is just the past and the market operates exclusively within the contraints of known human behavior. There is a reason for this. Humans create bots and algos as I do. Computers obey their masters who are called humans. Humans behave. See behavioral Finance where the human proscess of iterative refinment is defined on the home page with a reference to a paper "BF or BS"

There is no probabilty or predicting simply because it is known to not be necessary. Anything not necessary is not done.

thank you for reading this and rejecting my rational deductive thinking. You use induction and induction is NOT part of science.

 

[Specterx]

Quote from NoDoji:

I'm an intraday scalper trading CL and ES (10-25 trades daily) using a DOM to place and manage trades. I'm considering switching to trading directly on the chart.

I'm looking for feedback from experienced (>3 years) intraday futures scalpers who've traded on a DOM and directly on a chart comparing the pros and cons of the two methods.

I trade ES and use the chart only for order entry, generally going for targets of a few points (2-3). It works for me, but ES moves extremely slowly and I generally pre-place my orders well in advance. On something like CL you might take a little longer to adapt, or find that using the chart trader doesn't offer enough precision.

My question is, how are you finding ten trades a day on ES?

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from bighog:

EDIT: Sierra charts have good chart entry.........X-Trader still has best order entry though.

You're entering orders on a DOM, though, not directly on Sierra Chart?

ES vs CL, huh?

Every time CL makes a truly serious move (which is hardly ever these days) I hear your voice in my head from the old Skype days..."Look at that! What the hell'd it do that for?"