*EXPERIENCED DAY TRADERS*how would you recommend starting out as a trader?

[EPrado]

Josh-

I'll throw in my 2 cents. While I haven't been day trading very long, I've been in the business over 25 years as a broker. Day trading is a completely different animal. It sounds like you have done some good things already by coming up with a strategy, and testing it in a sim environment. Keep in mind (as you have heard before) that real money on the line makes trading a whole different deal from sim. You have gotten some solid advice from J Smith and EPrado. It is good to be teachable.

While strategy is important, the psychological aspect of trading is far more important in my opinion. I think there have been studies done that show even random entries can be profitable with proper money management. Money management has everything to do with psychology. Can you cut your losses? Can you ride your winners? It's all a mind game.

Prado gives some really solid advice. If you make it, it will take much longer than you think. I would say multiple the time you think it will take by 2 or 3. I'm not even kidding. If you think you can make a living in 6 months, plan on a year or 18 months. If you aren't discouraged by then, you stand a decent chance. Save your money and keep a job for as long as you can while you learn to be profitable.

Lastly, I would say stay positive. There may be days, where every trade turns to shit. But people are doing this for a living. It can be done, and you ask the right question. Why not me?

Solid advice Ken. I am also in the camp of the psychological part of trading is more important than the strategy. Whenever I go through draw downs (they happen to everyone) it's not the strategy, it's me over thinking things, not taking trades. My strategy is very systematic. The set up is there, you pull the trigger, EVERY TIME. There is no room for thinking "Do I do the trade or not ?"

In the past what has gotten me in trouble is after a few losing trades in a row is to start over thinking and coming up for excuses for not doing the trade. Then I pass on a set up. The trade would have been a lay up. To me losing trades are really no big deal, part of the game. But to pass on a winning trade you knew you should do is absolutely horrific. So now instead of making a good chunk of the draw down back I'm in the same place P/L wise. To me that is BAD trading.

This happens less over time the more you trade. One thing I do now is once I'm done for the day that's it. Forget whether it was a good or bad day and move on. When I come into the next session I forgot what happened yesterday. In my opinion you have to....trading really is a giant mindf*ck at times. If you can get through that, to me the trading part is easy if you have a solid well defined strategy.

 

[lawrence-lugar]

...trading really is a giant mindf*ck at times. If you can get through that, to me the trading part is easy if you have a solid well defined strategy.

I agree. That pretty much sums it up.
You have to understand the market: feel her...talk to her, make love to her... ops: -- I like to refer to the market as She, kind of like referring to the ocean.

...Just like sailing and trading...you're not fully in control...She is -- and you have to understand Her current temperament and mood and feelings.

The Market is... Part Art, Part Science...so following "a solid well defined strategy" won't always work...and can infact just do more harm to you instead

 

[EPrado]

I agree. That pretty much sums it up.
You have to understand the market: feel her...talk to her, make love to her... ops: -- I like to refer to the market as She, kind of like referring to the ocean.

...Just like sailing and trading...you're not fully in control...She is -- and you have to understand Her current temperament and mood and feelings.

The Market is... Part Art, Part Science...so following "a solid well defined strategy" won't always work...and can infact just do more harm to you instead.

How can a well defined strategy do more harm ?

I gotta hear this one. This sounds beyond stupid to me, but will refrain from saying anything else until I hear what you have to say.

 

[lawrence-lugar]

How can a well defined strategy do more harm ?

I gotta hear this one. This sounds beyond stupid to me,

I'm referring to linear robotic traders or systems...that don't really take into account the much important finicky human element of the markets.

You can't just build a system or robot, and set it and forget it...and expect money to be printed out daily.
...like I said: the Market is Part art, Part science. (and those can variations can vary greatly on any given day or moment.)

 

[EPrado]

I'm referring to linear robotic traders or systems...that don't really take into account the much important finicky human element of the markets.

You can't just build a system or robot, and set it and forget it.

Uh huh............when you watch a market trade can you tell the difference between a human or a computer that is doing the buying or selling ? What is this important finicky human element ?


You can't just build a system or a computer and let it trade? Really ? Somebody better tell James Simons that. I think he has done pretty good going that route.

For the record I am a human being ....not a robot. So I have no dog in this fight.

 

[lawrence-lugar]

Uh huh.........

For the record I am a human being ....not a robot. So I have no dog in this fight.

you got the right one, Baby...uh huh

 

[EPrado]

you got the right one, Baby...uh huh

Still waiting for the "Do more harm" part.....................

From your posts it seems you might be drinking more than diet pepsi this afternoon.

 

[lawrence-lugar]

Still waiting for the "Do more harm" part.....................
From your posts it seems you might be drinking more than diet pepsi this afternoon.

Have the foresight of support and resistance levels in mind, and have logic and reasoning behind those. -- so you won't necessarily be hit by a cliff. This is the human element of it.

...if you're a robotic linear system trader, then you're bound to fall up a cliff blindsided

(This is why i hate Debating; there is no end game...you can do this for hours. kind of a waste of time, in my book.
I just like to make my point,then leave.)

 

[EPrado]

Have the foresight of support and resistance levels in mind, and have logic and reasoning behind those. -- so you won't necessarily be hit by a cliff. This is the human element of it.

...if you're a robotic linear system trader, then you're bound to fall up a cliff blindsided

(This is why i hate Debating; there is no end game...you can do this for hours. kind of a waste of time, in my book.
I just like to make my point,then leave.)

I'm not trying to debate about computers vs humans. I'm an old school trader so really don't get involved with programming systems and all. Some of my order entry is automated, but I am the one making the decision. Not R2D2.

I just thought that your saying having a well defined strategy as being a bad thing is beyond ridiculous. Having a well defined strategy absolutely doesn't mean it has to be programmed or run by some computer. A lot of the very good human traders I know have a well defined strategy.

 

[Swift5]

Well first off I always wait 20 minutes after the market opens before I place a trade. I then scan the charts and always choose stocks that are down, that I really believe are going up. I wait until the U where it first starts to come back or after 2 consecutive drops with a peak that will go back up, basically following patters of what I've seen in the charts. I made my own strategy from practining for a couple months and I haven't had one negative day on this practice account. I usually make 2-4 trades then sell when they go back up, usually 50-70 % go up where others stay the same or go down and I sell. I sell seconds to 15 minutes usually. I've held for a few hours to a couple last week and it worked out to my advantage but ideally as soon as I see profit I take it, and cut my losses on bad trades as soon as possible. Overall my wins have outweighed my losses since I started studying charts, but I'm not a pro, I know nothing really but go off of what I'm really sure is going to happen. I'm still studying technical analysis online to learn more about charts. I heard this is more of an odds game rather than predicting so that's what I've been going for. None of this could have even made sense to you but I'm not sure how else to explain at the level im currently at. I'll get back to you when I know more.

It is unbelievable, I take the same approach, except waiting for 30 minutes and trading with real money. My results so far are close to JoshLowe005's, also with 30K invested.

This must be my lucky day to stubmble in this thread. Can't wait to read more posts from J_Smith, Ken Busch, EPrado, and especially AT for being such an indispensible facilitator.

Josh, lucky you, starts at age 20. Hold tight this unusual opportuity offered by J_Smith. Accept his challenge and learn from him.

Best wishes to you!

Swift