Exotics Bookrunner

[Martinghoul]

please provide detailed information and backup why what I said is bullshit.

This is exactly what I mean, there are people with almost 7000 posts running around and if you look at their past posts you see they realm pretty much every petty chat and economic thread and they sound like as if they have 5 PHDs. They contribute very little to help others (but a lot to appear schooled) but can shoot down those who help with 5 word rants without a single factual backup. Before whom you listen to.

"Beware", not "before"...

1) I am on NucPhy. I know a lot of the people who post there personally, so I can vouch for them. Some of them I deal with directly (they provide me liquidity). Others (quite a few) are on the buyside, working for well-known shops. Moreover, I have known them for years and years.

2) Swaptions/caps are classified as vanilla rates vol products. As such, desks which trade these form a part of the liquid rates franchise at every single dealer I know of. These products are never classified as "exotics" and never have been. CMS spread options are borderline. However, these days it's actually not that unusual for simple CMS products like those to also be part of liquid rates. The skill sets for the properly exo stuff are not that different, in the grand scheme of things, which is why you see a lot of lateral movement of people, as well as reporting lines.

Like I said, bullsh1t...

 

[volpunter]

1) Then you should rtfq: I recommended NucPhy for OP's question.
2) Barclays, DB, GS, MS, and few other firms trade Caps, Floors, Swaptions, and CMS as part of their exotic rates group but its traders are part of the group. I never claimed they are exotic products. Again, you did not read carefully.

"Beware", not "before"...

1) I am on NucPhy. I know a lot of the people who post there personally, so I can vouch for them. Some of them I deal with directly (they provide me liquidity). Others (quite a few) are on the buyside, working for well-known shops. Moreover, I have known them for years and years.

2) Swaptions/caps are classified as vanilla rates vol products. As such, desks which trade these form a part of the liquid rates franchise at every single dealer I know of. These products are never classified as "exotics" and never have been. CMS spread options are borderline. However, these days it's actually not that unusual for simple CMS products like those to also be part of liquid rates. The skill sets for the properly exo stuff are not that different, in the grand scheme of things, which is why you see a lot of lateral movement of people, as well as reporting lines.

Like I said, bullsh1t...

 

[Martinghoul]

1) Then you should rtfq: I recommended NucPhy for OP's question.
2) Barclays, DB, GS, MS, and few other firms trade Caps, Floors, Swaptions, and CMS as part of their exotic rates group but its traders are part of the group. I never claimed they are exotic products. Again, you did not read carefully.

1) You are correct, I didn't read your response attentively enough. I thought you said that 95% of people on NucPhy are worthless and I got a little angry. I apologise.

2) No, liquid rates vol products market-making is not part of the exotic rates groups at any of the dealers you mentioned.

 

[volpunter]

again incorrect. I worked at two of the mentioned banks myself and traded caps, floors, and swaptions as part of the exotic rates group. Please stop making up lies, just because you disagree with me in another thread does not mean you have to lie or at the very least pretend you know what you are talking about here when you are clearly not in the know.

1) You are correct, I didn't read your response attentively enough. I thought you said that 95% of people on NucPhy are worthless and I got a little angry. I apologise.

2) No, liquid rates vol products market-making is not part of the exotic rates groups at any of the dealers you mentioned.

 

[Martinghoul]

again incorrect. I worked at two of the mentioned banks myself and traded caps, floors, and swaptions as part of the exotic rates group. Please stop making up lies, just because you disagree with me in another thread does not mean you have to lie or at the very least pretend you know what you are talking about here when you are clearly not in the know.

I deal with all of these today, every single bloody day. The mkt-makers who trade vanilla rates vol products are not part of exotics, period.

 

[volpunter]

Please feel free to inquire with your Barcap buddies (and I only name one firm here and I am not working there) , if you actually have any, everyone on the rates site can easily confirm that caps, floors, swaptions, and CMS are traded as part of the exotic rates group. At least in Asia as well as London. Idiot!!!

I deal with all of these today, every single bloody day. The mkt-makers who trade vanilla rates vol products are not part of exotics, period.

 

[volpunter]

you could at least apologize if you

1) accuse me of something while in effect you did not read carefully.

and

2) I provided a specific bank (among others) name for you to verify. Have at least the guts and manner to apologize for false accusations!!!

1) You are correct, I didn't read your response attentively enough. I thought you said that 95% of people on NucPhy are worthless and I got a little angry. I apologise.

2) No, liquid rates vol products market-making is not part of the exotic rates groups at any of the dealers you mentioned.

 

[Martinghoul]

you could at least apologize if you

1) accuse me of something while in effect you did not read carefully.

and

2) I provided a specific bank (among others) name for you to verify. Have at least the guts and manner to apologize for false accusations!!!

I have apologized for the instance where I misread your statement.

I talk to Barclays mkt makers (vanilla rates as well as exo) every day. They make me prices for all the products you mention. You're wrong.

 

[volpunter]

I am not wrong and you know it. If caps/floors/swaptions traders report to the same boss as the structured notes guys then both groups are under the same roof. Period. You just have too big an ego to admit it. And I am really not inclined to carry on with your ridiculous games. Anyone who expresses interest in this field finds out what I explained to be true.

You have not added any value here in this thread whatsoever (again, like in most threads you participate and inject your "expert" opinion. What advice can you give to OP?

P.S. So, let me understand this correctly: You claimed you talk to "all the banks I mentioned, including barcap". So you are clearly not a prop trader nor hedge fund trader (hardly anyone in this space trades rates exotics to begin with, especially not rates and vanilla products at the same time), nor are you an inter bank dealer (there is no inter bank market in any exotics), nor are you trading at another bank as market maker (cause else you would not be talking to other banks directly). Corporate side being the only alternative (but I dont think so, you express way too much interest in econ). Something you are saying just does not add up, mate. Oh wait, maybe you are "private banker" who sells shite to rich dummies or are the little guy to add couple hundred bps to re-sell the same products he nor anyone in-house understands to even less understanding retail clients. Sounds about right.

I have apologized for the instance where I misread your statement.

I talk to Barclays mkt makers (vanilla rates as well as exo) every day. They make me prices for all the products you mention. You're wrong.

 

[Martinghoul]

I am not wrong and you know it. If caps/floors/swaptions traders report to the same boss as the structured notes guys then both groups are under the same roof. Period. You just have too big an ego to admit it. And I am really not inclined to carry on with your ridiculous games. Anyone who expresses interest in this field finds out what I explained to be true.

Let me say it again, for the last time... Liquid rates vol desks which trade vanilla vol products like caps/floors/swaptions do not report to the same immediate boss as the structured notes/exo people. And yes, they all eventually report to some head of rates, but let's pls not talk abt these people being part of the same team, because they all work for the same bank, run by the same CEO.

You have not added any value here in this thread whatsoever (again, like in most threads you participate and inject your "expert" opinion. What advice can you give to OP?

I am curious whether in my absence and w/o my knowledge someone appointed you the forum's resident content policeman. My advice to the OP is to avoid listening to people who don't know what they're talking about, such as yourself.

P.S. So, let me understand this correctly: You claimed you talk to "all the banks I mentioned, including barcap". So you are clearly not a prop trader nor hedge fund trader (hardly anyone in this space trades rates exotics to begin with, especially not rates and vanilla products at the same time), nor are you an inter bank dealer (there is no inter bank market in any exotics), nor are you trading at another bank as market maker (cause else you would not be talking to other banks directly). Corporate side being the only alternative (but I dont think so, you express way too much interest in econ). Something you are saying just does not add up, mate. Oh wait, maybe you are "private banker" who sells shite to rich dummies or are the little guy to add couple hundred bps to re-sell the same products he nor anyone in-house understands to even less understanding retail clients. Sounds about right.

Are you sh1tting me? Seriously? Hedge funds don't trade rate vol? A hedge fund PM can't express a view simultaneously with linear and non-linear rates products? There is no interbank mkt in swaptions, caps/floors, etc? I mean, honestly, my friend, this is just crazy talk right here...

Damn, that's some funny sh1t.