Exorbitant desk costs

[Don Bright]

Quote from Maverick74:

Don, can you be more specific about your disagreement over the "number of new traders"? I didn't catch that.

Not a disagreement, wrong term. I was referring to the number of new hires these days in those types of firms you outline. The last couple of guys who joined us, from CMe firms were just saying that there is no longer a "big net" being thrown out, as far as number of new hires. This is perfectly understandable, the entire climate has slowed down (yes, even here of course).

Any idea of how new people, just a guess from what you see?

The firms have the right, and obligation I would even say, to be more selective...trying to find the perfect trader. We have even designed new trading plans for 2012, focused on the disciplined, hard working trader.

Again, still not desiring of debating you these days... prefer our congenial conversations...remember, I'm still older than you (but you seem to be catching up, LOL).

Don

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Don Bright:

Not a disagreement, wrong term. I was referring to the number of new hires these days in those types of firms you outline. The last couple of guys who joined us, from CMe firms were just saying that there is no longer a "big net" being thrown out, as far as number of new hires. This is perfectly understandable, the entire climate has slowed down (yes, even here of course).

Any idea of how new people, just a guess from what you see?

The firms have the right, and obligation I would even say, to be more selective...trying to find the perfect trader. We have even designed new trading plans for 2012, focused on the disciplined, hard working trader.

Again, still not desiring of debating you these days... prefer our congenial conversations...remember, I'm still older than you (but you seem to be catching up, LOL).

Don

Don, you LOVE debating me.

Of course these firms are not hiring right and left, they have automated a lot of their trading and they are in the HFT space big time. But our point of contention was not if they were hiring or how much, but making an apples to apples comparison of working at a firm like Bright vs say a Breakwater.

The truth is Don, 99% of the guys on ET would not even get a return phone call from most of these firms. I never said otherwise. And that is why you and brother are in business, in Vegas no less. The city of broken dreams. Sorry, that was one step too far.

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from Maverick74:

Don, you LOVE debating me.

Of course these firms are not hiring right and left, they have automated a lot of their trading and they are in the HFT space big time. But our point of contention was not if they were hiring or how much, but making an apples to apples comparison of working at a firm like Bright vs say a Breakwater.

The truth is Don, 99% of the guys on ET would not even get a return phone call from most of these firms. I never said otherwise. And that is why you and brother are in business, in Vegas no less. The city of broken dreams. Sorry, that was one step too far.

A lot of "broken dreams" these days. At least in Vegas you "should" know the odds are against you. Same in Chicago, and the world as a whole. Work has replaced "dreams" - once again, no free money.

And, as I said, I want the firms in Chicago to do well, hire and train, and a few (just a few) branch out on their own, that's where we come in. You guys at Vtrader too, I would assume.

Don

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Don Bright:

A lot of "broken dreams" these days. At least in Vegas you "should" know the odds are against you. Same in Chicago, and the world as a whole. Work has replaced "dreams" - once again, no free money.

And, as I said, I want the firms in Chicago to do well, hire and train, and a few (just a few) branch out on their own, that's where we come in. You guys at Vtrader too, I would assume.

Don

Don, why don't you and your brother just get a gaming license? Step your game up a few notches.

 

[sellindexvol66]

Quote from Maverick74:

Don, why don't you and your brother just get a gaming license? Step your game up a few notches.

hey mav..as mentioned here and as you know...few make a living in any endeavor such as trading, opening a business, etc..it is all the same. my point is, cut don some slack...he is giving guys a shot...what more can you offer. i do see where you are going...some offers are better than others..but who really knows. even your place i know a few guys who tried, never made it and moved on...just the reality. at least there are shots out there to try and make it.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from sellindexvol66:

hey mav..as mentioned here and as you know...few make a living in any endeavor such as trading, opening a business, etc..it is all the same. my point is, cut don some slack...he is giving guys a shot...what more can you offer. i do see where you are going...some offers are better than others..but who really knows. even your place i know a few guys who tried, never made it and moved on...just the reality. at least there are shots out there to try and make it.

I'm not giving Don a hard time. He actually is the one that posted on here that he didn't understand the high desk fees. I simply explained to him how that business model works. That's all. I honestly don't think Don understands much about the Chicago/London model so I was just getting him caught up.

 

[Businessman]

Quote from broad:

Desk costs are starting to weigh a bit too heavily at the moment. Last year was admittedly below par on the trading front. I'm now questioning whether working from home is a better option or even going down the spread betting route.

Desk fees and related costs really hurt in a low profit year.

I know a prop trader who made around 100K last year in london.

After desk fees, profit split, taxes, accountancy fees and paying his own rent+general living expenses he had nothing left over.

He literally needs to make a 100K in trading profit each year just to break even.

How many people can consistently perform under that kind of pressure.. its different if you have a few 500K+ years under your belt with a good chunk of it still banked, but most don't.

 

[Swan Noir]

At those rates Don you must already be packing a bag and booking a flight ... lol. BTW ... some years back you were an active participant -- I was just an observer -- in what might have been the best thread ever on ET. You and Maverick74 went back and forth discussing real Tape Reading (not what passes for it) and it was illuminating!!

Quote from Don Bright:

Are you saying 3200 pounds as in about $4500 or so? This must be some sort of different model than anything in U.S. Maybe a seat lease on an Exchange, but a "desk fee?"

A bit shocking, I must be missing something.


Don

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from sellindexvol66:

hey mav..as mentioned here and as you know...few make a living in any endeavor such as trading, opening a business, etc..it is all the same. my point is, cut don some slack...he is giving guys a shot...what more can you offer. i do see where you are going...some offers are better than others..but who really knows. even your place i know a few guys who tried, never made it and moved on...just the reality. at least there are shots out there to try and make it.

Thanks, I don't think Mav is being too harsh...and, the truth is, what Bright does is try to take away some of the really stupid risks traders make. Such as worrying about your money (draw every week), worry about regulators (we are still the clean and green compared to most), and we offer solid, sincere help... from beginner to established trader. Even our direct competitors (not more than 3 or so) send new people here for training.

Some people just don't want a "job" - they prefer to take some chances, to make more money..... and, why not do it right? So many scams and nonsense out there.... I feel proud of our reputation for honesty, security, and sincerity in our desire to help traders.

Back home for the weekend, back at you later... thanks everyone.


Don

 

[Don Bright]

Quote from Swan Noir:

At those rates Don you must already be packing a bag and booking a flight ... lol. BTW ... some years back you were an active participant -- I was just an observer -- in what might have been the best thread ever on ET. You and Maverick74 went back and forth discussing real Tape Reading (not what passes for it) and it was illuminating!!

Thanks ... yes, at this point in my life, my best recollections are the times when we (me and BT) have helped educate traders, new and old. Not everyone can know everything (as noted when I ask Mav and others for advice here on ET)..... my little column is now over 10 years old in TASC, and I am honestly proud of it, it didn't make me any money (maybe some attention to BT?), but it feels good to help someone from being taken or sent down the wrong path... or even help with simple trading questions....

And, maybe Mav and I can get together again to chat about the state of trading these days?

All the best,

Don