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Ex-Hawaii official denounces 'ludicrous' birther claims.
- Thread starter Free Thinker
- Start date
Quote from jem:
good question. If we hold the bible teachings aside....
I am confident time is an illusion. I suspect this whole idea of space and universe is very limited. So I really have no idea how to take what I observe in a very limited manner and cast big judgments about something I have zero knowlege of.
Doesn't it seem odd that the "evidence for the existence of god" is completely hidden from the greatest human minds who spend their professional lives exploring how the universe functions, yet it is perfectly clear to uneducated simpletons who have access to internet-linked terminals?
Why does this seem odd to you?
You think God should provide some evidence first in order for you to believe and trust in God?
Have you ever considered that maybe finding God is not an intellectual process, but rather one of pure faith?
Is it logically possible that God gave man the choice of faith or non faith, and free will to choose accordingly, as that is in the best interest of man?
Seriously, I see this type of argument from atheists all the time.
If you assume a higher intellect than your own, so far beyond your intellect that you can't even imagine the disparity...think of a human intellect compared with the simplest of animals...and that difference is nothing compared to the intellect of one who could create the Universe from scratch.
A child can never understand their parents, because the child lacks the experience to understand.
So too, why wouldn't it be reasonable that a human could never understand God, until such time that God gave man His own intellectual capacity to understand God.
You can be humble toward God and pray for his grace, you can denounce God, you can be ambivalent...it is all just your choice.
You are satisfied with the limited intellect of human beings?
Fine.
You want something more than that?
Then seek it. But you will not find something greater than your own intellect with your own intellect...that's just not possible.
However, your heart can find God...just as the child can't understand the parents intellect and mind...the child can bond with the parents through faith and love.
You think God should provide some evidence first in order for you to believe and trust in God?
Have you ever considered that maybe finding God is not an intellectual process, but rather one of pure faith?
Is it logically possible that God gave man the choice of faith or non faith, and free will to choose accordingly, as that is in the best interest of man?
Seriously, I see this type of argument from atheists all the time.
If you assume a higher intellect than your own, so far beyond your intellect that you can't even imagine the disparity...think of a human intellect compared with the simplest of animals...and that difference is nothing compared to the intellect of one who could create the Universe from scratch.
A child can never understand their parents, because the child lacks the experience to understand.
So too, why wouldn't it be reasonable that a human could never understand God, until such time that God gave man His own intellectual capacity to understand God.
You can be humble toward God and pray for his grace, you can denounce God, you can be ambivalent...it is all just your choice.
You are satisfied with the limited intellect of human beings?
Fine.
You want something more than that?
Then seek it. But you will not find something greater than your own intellect with your own intellect...that's just not possible.
However, your heart can find God...just as the child can't understand the parents intellect and mind...the child can bond with the parents through faith and love.
Quote from Free Thinker:
Doesn't it seem odd that the "evidence for the existence of god" is completely hidden from the greatest human minds who spend their professional lives exploring how the universe functions, yet it is perfectly clear to uneducated simpletons who have access to internet-linked terminals?
Quote from Free Thinker:
Doesn't it seem odd that the "evidence for the existence of god" is completely hidden from the greatest human minds who spend their professional lives exploring how the universe functions, yet it is perfectly clear to uneducated simpletons who have access to internet-linked terminals?
What's odd is that you cannot or will not admit that what is "evidence" is defined by man. The decision that the definition is to be valued, or not, is itself a leap of faith. You can insert more qualifications between the definition and the decision, but those too are created by man.
Quote from Ricter:
What's odd is that you cannot or will not admit that what is "evidence" is defined by man. The decision that the definition is to be valued, or not, is itself a leap of faith. You can insert more qualifications between the definition and the decision, but those too are created by man.
what seems odd to me is why a god that was not capable if being detected by any type of evidence understandable to man should be worshiped by man?
Is it not common for a child to think a boy and girl kissing, or adults having sex is odd? Young children think that is gross.
Why do you have this hubristic sense that God should necessarily be detected by human mind, human senses, and human intellect?
Do you ever consider that to find God, you have to cease looking with the tools of mind and intellect, than can only observe limited things? How can an limited thing understand an unlimited thing?
What instrument do you have that is capable of observing and understanding something beyond the intellect?
Sorry, but your thinking is like a child questioning an adult...when the child has no frame of reference of what it is to be an adult.
If you really wanted to know and find God, you would have to start with admission that your own mind and intellect are not capable of understanding or knowing an infinite God.
I doubt very much that you want to humble yourself, and imagine that your own intellect is the obstacle in finding God.
So by all means, come on message boards and throw the tantrums you regularly do...free will.
Why do you have this hubristic sense that God should necessarily be detected by human mind, human senses, and human intellect?
Do you ever consider that to find God, you have to cease looking with the tools of mind and intellect, than can only observe limited things? How can an limited thing understand an unlimited thing?
What instrument do you have that is capable of observing and understanding something beyond the intellect?
Sorry, but your thinking is like a child questioning an adult...when the child has no frame of reference of what it is to be an adult.
If you really wanted to know and find God, you would have to start with admission that your own mind and intellect are not capable of understanding or knowing an infinite God.
I doubt very much that you want to humble yourself, and imagine that your own intellect is the obstacle in finding God.
So by all means, come on message boards and throw the tantrums you regularly do...free will.
Quote from Free Thinker:
what seems odd to me is why a god that was not capable if being detected by any type of evidence understandable to man should be worshiped by man?
Quote from Free Thinker:
what seems odd to me is why a god that was not capable if being detected by any type of evidence understandable to man should be worshiped by man?
Feelings are understandable by man. People fear, need, want, feel the presence of a creator. You feel that feelings are not, cannot be, evidence. Why?
Quote from Free Thinker:
what seems odd to me is why a god that was not capable if being detected by any type of evidence understandable to man should be worshiped by man?
if you understood one iota of the science I have been highlighting... you would know there is very legit evidence of a creator.
1. we have massive fine tunings. given the building blocks of the big bang to many top physicists and nobel prize winners it is impossibly lucky that we are here in a universe supporting life. So we either have evidence of a designer or you have to have faith in virtually infinite universes. (many top cosmologists state this.... I have pointed it out many times.
2. Nobel prize winner biologists point out given the science we know and the time we had... there is no way abiogenesis happened on Earth.
--
Faith in no God takes as much faith as Faith in a Creator... that is the message from science today... and every year that message is getting weightier towards the side of designer... Why the hell you you think they are speculating about an proven multiverse and panspermia.
better to speculate about those things than a Creator to some.
Quote from Free Thinker:
you do realize that you are conceding that you do not have the ability to think through the evidence in front of you and make an intelligent decision?
on the other hand i guess reincarnation could be real if it makes you good.
I am evaluating the evidence perfectly you are just stabbing in the dark and saying nothing is there. I am stabbing the dark and saying I do not know what is there but there is some evidence of a creator in the light.