I hate to beat a dead horse, but if you're looking at facts and coming to conclusions, the next step is to devise experiments to test those conclusions. If you can't or won't do that, then your conclusions are simply your opinions. You can say that the facts constitute evidence that ______________, but if we can't test it out, then......that doesn't do anyone any good, really.
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Evolution - A Weak Argument for the Anti-Supernatural?
- Thread starter ShoeshineBoy
- Start date
I hate to beat a dead horse, but if you're looking at facts and coming to conclusions, the next step is to devise experiments to test those conclusions. If you can't or won't do that, then your conclusions are simply your opinions. You can say that the facts constitute evidence that ______________, but if we can't test it out, then......that doesn't do anyone any good, really.
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:
But Johnny you're getting so far out there that you don't even recognize how outlandish your claims here. Where are you getting this "truth"? Are these thoughts popping into your head? Are you channeling this? Are you watching Dr. Phil?
How can you expect anyone to take you seriously unless you identify the source of all this great wisdom that has turned you into Jesus, the 12 Apostles, the Dalai Lama and David Carradine all rolled into one resplendant human vessel?
The world is "far out". So any call from home is going to sound outlandish. You're still not grasping the scope of the deception yet. Essentially, you have the whole power of the Son of God intent upon deceiving himself, and you are party to it.
What the Son has made of himself is a kind of Rubric's cube, a puzzle guaranteed to fool any "individual" aspect of the mind who uses a separatist thought system to solve it. I solved the puzzle 2000 years ago, and left instructions. Those instructions were altered, abridged, misconstrued by the same type of thinking that made the puzzle in the first place.
The instructions to the puzzle are now secreted away where you would never think to look: Right on the internet in plain view. Now, if you want the truth, you simply set your compass. Don't be like Captain Jack Sparrow who didn't know what he wanted.
You are certain to find it if you want it. The good news is that even if one part of the internet is destroyed, the truth could still be found through alternate routes.
Now let's say you can find some of it in books. Those books are still "within" you, for there is nothing in the world that is not within your mind. And if you are calling for the truth, the books will find you as you open your mind. Whether it is a book or not, you remain the authority whether to accept or reject what can be read.
You can use a book as a head-start, to save time. That is, you can use a book that can train your mind to hear the Voice from within.
This is all to say that the truth comes into this world via the Holy Spirit through various routes. He will come to you in the form you need, whether it is a voice, an idea in your head, something someone says, a book. It's all His to use.
I have noticed that here among the "elite" at ET, our brothers say things that could just as easily come straight from the Holy Spirit. They do not know how they come upon these ideas with such firm conviction. But this will happen whenever the mind is open for the truth so that Light can shine through.
The parables I spoke 2000 years ago popped into my head...sometimes as I stood before a crowd, and turned within to listen.
I still use parables that pop into my head, ways of explaining the same thing in a way someone might understand. But to catch them, you must have a basic understanding of the big picture, that is, an open mind...and a willingness to trust what your heart tells you.
Plus I watch Dr. Phil everyday. jk.
The source of this great wisdom is the same source everyone has available if they have "ears to hear". That source is the Holy Spirit, who's task it is to help you dissolve your individual identity so as to merge your identity with His. He is, for the purpose of saving this world, the Son of God. And this is the meaning of "die to yourself, that you may live".
In other words, this is not a good time to go long on JohnnyK.
I present you with the information like a banquet. It stands on it's own merit, and witnesses for itself. Look at what is claimed, then look at the world and see if what is claimed resembles what is actually taking place in the world. See it over and over and you have yourself a scientific process.
Scribes once asked me, "on who's authority do you teach?"
I said, "On who's authority did John baptize?"
Basically, John baptized on his own authority, and I the same.
The invitation for the Holy Spirit to teach you could be as simple as writing in a journal, "What can I think in order to have a better year?"
Jesus
Quote from traderNik:
I hate to beat a dead horse, but if you're looking at facts and coming to conclusions, the next step is to devise experiments to test those conclusions. If you can't or won't do that, then your conclusions are simply your opinions. You can say that the facts constitute evidence that ______________, but if we can't test it out, then......that doesn't do anyone any good, really.
I agree. I like to see independent research universities to perform some scientific experiments to verify those hypothesis. It can never be verified, but at least we can have a hypothesis with some statistical confidence.
Quote from powerfade:
We're not talking about kindergarten.
LOL. We are allowed to tell fairy tales in kindergarden when the kids don't know they are fictions. However, we are not allowed to tell bible stories in middle or high schools when they understand that those bible stories have not been verified by science.
Should we allow teaching bible in high schools if the bible teachers tell the class that bible has not been verified by science?
Quote from ShoeshineBoy:
But Johnny you're getting so far out there that you don't even recognize how outlandish your claims here. Where are you getting this "truth"? Are these thoughts popping into your head? Are you channeling this? Are you watching Dr. Phil?
How can you expect anyone to take you seriously unless you identify the source of all this great wisdom that has turned you into Jesus, the 12 Apostles, the Dalai Lama and David Carradine all rolled into one resplendant human vessel?
2000 years ago, I was aware of, and learned from various sources, including:
The Essenes.
The legacy of Buddha.
Advaita Vedante
Jewish mysticism
Plato ie. the parable of "The Cave"
Gnostic mystics
The old Scriptures.
There were some wise men among the Jews who taught specifically the art of forgiveness. That helped me greatly, to the point I was able to see the Light, shimmering, whenever I looked upon anybody in a certain way. I could see this Light from a young age. I realized the Light was within me also, and I looked for it there.
These gave me a "boost" to where I could be taught directly by the "Holy Spirit"...which is the Son of God for purposes of healing the mind that makes this world.
This resulted in a "break-through" of sorts, where I could remember what happened before this world came to rise in the mind of the Son. I could remember the circumstances, the judgements, the strange logic, the guilty feelings, the feeling of fear. The Holy Spirit guided my through all of this in a way that allowed me to choose again how I would respond were I presented once again with the same logic that resulted in this world, and my appearance in it. This time, I chose to listen to the Holy Spirit's advice, instead of "the devil". By that, I mean I chose not to judge myself guilty for the thought of separation from my Father. I chose to believe that I am innocent. And that changed everything in my experience.
I emerged from the desert as a teacher. But what you don't realize is that as teacher, I was the student. I had a Teacher, and I taught how to listen to this Teacher always.
Now when I emerged from the desert, I still had some lingering pockets of fear in my mind. The purpose of following the Guidance of the Teacher is so that He can lead you to those situations and circumstances that will show you that you have nothing to fear. This is the prime model that everyone will follow. The Holy Spirit set me on a mission that only I could fulfill. Likewise, every aspect of the Son's mind has a special function only he/she can fulfill.
For three years I was a teacher being taught by the Teacher. We co-created the crucifixion-resurrection demonstration as a kind of thesis, to show me that what I learned is true. It was for me, but was done in a way that those with me could see the validity of my teachings. What you don't realize is that in this process, I "died" to the concept of "Jesus, the son of man". And I lived to tell about it.
The world was not really ready for my teachings then. It is only a little more prepared to learn now, but there has been progress.
What has happened is that my teachings were for the most part discarded in favor of a short cut. But the path that merely sees me as a blood-sacrifice for sins is essentially the same path the Donner Party took over the Sierra Nevada's. That is a dead end. It is equivalent to shooting a herd of wild buffalo for the skins, and leaving the carcasses to rot on the plains.
So it was, my teachings were stripped clean in favor of an outward show of religion. As it became a popularity contest backed by Rome, my teachings were further suppressed. Here is a clue my teachings were suppressed: No one among what passes for Christianity as altered the birth-death pattern in a way that demonstrates the impossibility of death...as I had done.
Getting back to my story, the three years of teaching, the miracles, the crucifixion and resurrection...these all were for my own education. I emerged utterly fearless, and without a doubt: I am Christ, the Son of God.
And so are you. That is for me to know, and for you to find out.
Jesus
Quote from vhehn:
Not true. We have only copies of copies of the new testament the oldest dating 120-150 years after Jesus time and that fragment is only the size of a credit card.
You would think believers would at least take the time to learn about the history of the bible they claim to base their life on.
http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/greek/johnpap.html
Here is a short recap:
Stephen was one of the greatest teachers of the Way. The good teachers could be counted on one hand.
Stephen was stoned about 20 years after my crucifixion.
Saul, later to become Paul, was there consenting to his death.
Saul ran about the countryside, far and wide, persecuting those of the Way.
One day, Saul suddenly fell gripped with guilty feelings, and changed his ways.
But did he change his stripes?
Saul was all about condemning those who did not believe as he did. This attitude did not change, if you read some of his writings. And Saul was not yet ready to accept the Way as it was. The Way was not acceptable to him unless it involved some segue with blood-sacrifice themes from ancient Israel. After all, Saul was a student of the Pharisees, and had invested much of his life in sacrificial themes.
The Way was about seeing the world a whole new way.
Saul was about theology, mental gymnastics, and about integrating the Way with his way of thinking.
Saul changed his name to Paul and went about teaching and preaching in my name with much fervor. As it became a popularity contest, Paul's theology influenced those interested in the Way.
The synoptic gospels were penned 100-130 years after the stoning of Stephen, after the influence of Paul upon the minds of seekers.
These gospels were all copied from a source called "Q", which was actually named "Words of the Master".
Stephen was one of three contributors to the Words of the Master, which was an accurate account of my sayings and teachings.
As the synoptic gospels were copied from this source, the information was edited to reflect the influence of Paul at that time.
As Paul Harvey would say, "And now you know the rest of the story".
Stephens gospel was condemned, suppressed and destroyed as a result of the work of Paul.
Other gospels were attacked and destroyed as well, including one of my apostles Thomas.
Today, if you turn on a "Christian" radio station, you will notice that it is still all about Paul, whose words drown out mine, both in the bible, and on the airwaves.
There was one preacher who said, "Forget about Jesus, I just want to get to the level of Paul right now!"
And this is simply because Paul's version of the Way is more popular right now.
But there is a new movement afoot that is growing faster than versions of the Way grew in the beginning. And it will prevail.
Jesus
Quote from traderNik:
I hate to beat a dead horse, but if you're looking at facts and coming to conclusions, the next step is to devise experiments to test those conclusions. If you can't or won't do that, then your conclusions are simply your opinions. You can say that the facts constitute evidence that ______________, but if we can't test it out, then......that doesn't do anyone any good, really.
If you applied the logic that you stated above you could have no courts or courts of law. How could you reach a verdict in a case if you forced all results "to be conducted in a laboratory". It doesn't make sense legally and it doesn't make sense here...
Quote from traderNik:
lol... well actually, I would be very curious to know about the evidence which causes you to believe in a Creator God.
Well, here's just a few that point to a Creator and/or a Supernatural backdrop to life imo:
1. Supernatural experiences before becoming a Christian. (I was a New Ager before there was the term - except I didn't believe I was Jesus like some people around here!)
2. Supernatural experiences after I became a Christian.
3. Personal change in myself and others.
4. Christian miracles (supernatural) occurring around the globe.
5. Evidence for the paranormal/supernatural occurring around the globe.
6. Origin of Life through "Impossibility"
7. My F-16 argument on the other thread
8. Complexity of Man's Mind unachievable in just a few million years.
9. Resurrection Argument
10. Mindboggling growth of Christian Church by miracles in the first couple of centuries.
11. The Solar System Argument.
12. CS Lewis Arguments.
13. Integrity of the Manuscripts
14. Sturdiness of the Scriptures through post-Enlightenment attacks.
I could go on, but that's a good start. Again, I only consider these "evidence", NOT proof. Proof must always come from faith and I will be the first to admit it.
Quote from I am...:
2000 years ago, I was aware of, and learned from various sources, including:
The Essenes.
The legacy of Buddha.
Advaita Vedante
Jewish mysticism
Plato ie. the parable of "The Cave"
Gnostic mystics
The old Scriptures.
Jesus
Yeah, right!
And this weekend I threw 19 for 28 for 288 yards against Jacksonville. Oh, and did you see my four touchdown passes?
Peyton
Quote from I am...:
2000 years ago, I was aware of, and learned from various sources, including:
The Essenes.
The legacy of Buddha.
Advaita Vedante
Jewish mysticism
Plato ie. the parable of "The Cave"
Gnostic mystics
The old Scriptures.
Jesus
Yeah, right!
And this weekend I threw 19 for 28 for 288 yards against Jacksonville. Oh, and did you see my four touchdown passes?
Peyton