Evil Doers blow up university students

[rs7]

Originally posted by daniel_m

Glad to see I'm not the only one interested in exposing Islam for the evil BS that it is. (Here's that link again: http://main.faithfreedom.org)

Certainly, let's widen the discussion. For starters, I suggest you open your eyes - and stop being a hypocrite - and fairly judge your own holy book, the Bible, on its merits!

I think I said before that you must be a fun guy to hang out with.

You argued with Darkhorse endlessly about his beliefs. I totally disagreed with Darkhorse as far as his political beliefs and religious beliefs. But he managed to maintain respect and reason in his posts. You were just abusive to him as you are here. Any excuse to be insulting, and there you are!!

You have called me "stupid" and "delusional"...you accused me of showing a link that was "a propaganda site"....yet you post a site that is obviously run by a hate group (of course I don't expect you to understand that).

You don't even agree with yourself! You are anti-Islam, pro-palestinian, anti Israel, anti religion...... I don't have the patience to look through your posts for the inconsistencies...The point is that you will say just about anything if it serves the purpose of being inflammatory. You apparently have no real beliefs, you just crave an excuse to argue and offend. The only belief you do seem to have is your adhesion to your misanthropic outlook.

Don't forget to pick up your hood from the cleaners. I know you must have a Klan meeting to go to soon. I know how you guys get a little antsy in the dog days of August. Drink a lot of beer, shoot some traffic signs...you'll feel better. Just try and not hurt anyone. (each other is ok though).

 

[Cesko]

Only secular, humanist governance offers the world the chance for peace, co-operation and prosperity.

So what you are saying, a bureaucrat is gonna solve all your problems? Are you 6 years old or what?
I really despise when somebody mixes church attendance with religion.

Ever heard of Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads, Yoga?

Your level of understanding of religion is the same as of those willing to blow themselves up for whatever reason.

 

[daniel_m]

I think I said before that you must be a fun guy to hang out with.

Yep, I'm a blast!


You argued with Darkhorse endlessly about his beliefs. I totally disagreed with Darkhorse as far as his political beliefs and religious beliefs. But he managed to maintain respect and reason in his posts. You were just abusive to him as you are here. Any excuse to be insulting, and there you are!!

Firstly, I don't come to internet forums in an attempt to win friends (obviously ) Secondly, although I may have hurled a few insults Darkhorse's way, my argument itself was based on pure reason.

You have called me "stupid" and "delusional"...you accused me of showing a link that was "a propaganda site"....yet you post a site that is obviously run by a hate group (of course I don't expect you to understand that).

Look, I sincerely apologise for using such language. (Honestly.) But I use it freely because I don't really regard message boards as a place to have to watch my tongue/manners and observe other "social norms". I use internet message boards as way to gather information from others and to post a differing point of view when I have one. Okay? Now, you may very well feel differently about it, but that's fine! The readers of anything I write can evaluate it's usefulness.

If you even take 5 minutes to view the material contained in the sites I posted you'll quickly realise that they're anything but a "hate group". Open your mind, what do you have to lose?

You don't even agree with yourself! You are anti-Islam, pro-palestinian, anti Israel, anti religion...... I don't have the patience to look through your posts for the inconsistencies...The point is that you will say just about anything if it serves the purpose of being inflammatory. You apparently have no real beliefs, you just crave an excuse to argue and offend. The only belief you do seem to have is your adhesion to your misanthropic outlook.

Misanthropic outlook? LOL! That really makes me wonder if you've actually read anything I've ever written.

OK rs7, since you haven't been able to discern what "real beliefs" I hold, just for your apparently limited mental capacity, I'll post them here:

I am:

pro freedom of thought
pro freedom of action
pro "rule of law"
pro peace
pro capitalism
pro scientific method
pro, in short, of anything that helps better the condition of life on earth for all human beings.

I am neither pro/anti israel nor palestinians. I am pro finding a solution that will enable mankind, as a whole, to live in peace. Is that so hard to grasp (from what I've written)?

Don't forget to pick up your hood from the cleaners. I know you must have a Klan meeting to go to soon. I know how you guys get a little antsy in the dog days of August. Drink a lot of beer, shoot some traffic signs...you'll feel better. Just try and not hurt anyone. (each other is ok though).

Great, now I'm being accused of racism also. Well, for your information dude, I've been on the receiving end of enough racial hatred and mistrust to last me a life time.

And you have the nerve to call me unnecissarily inflammatory!

 

[daniel_m]

So what you are saying, a bureaucrat is gonna solve all your problems? Are you 6 years old or what?

Did I say that? Do I require anyone to solve my problems? NO.
I was talking about the ideological underpinning of government. You do realise that some form of government is always going to be necessary don't you? (if not, perhaps, YOU are the one who is 6 years old) What would you prefer? That the government embrace a secular, humanist stance, or a theocratic one?


Ever heard of Bhagavad Gita, Upanishads, Yoga?

Your level of understanding of religion is the same as of those willing to blow themselves up for whatever reason.

I've heard of Yoga, (wasn't aware it was a religion) but not the other two. If they hold a belief in some sort of a 'god', well, I'm inclined to write them off as BS - although that doesn't necessarliy mean I think they're "bad".

Here's the litmus test I use on any religion:

Does it require blind faith in a particular set of holy books, that, when critically examined, don't hold up under the scrutiny of scientific investigation? If the answer is YES, I regard the religion as BS - but not necessarily harmful.

Does it presribe death/torture/torment or any other form of pain (physical or psychological) to anybody that doesn't (or chooses not to) believe/practise it? If YES, then not only is it BS, but HARMFUL.

 

[rs7]

Originally posted by daniel_m


Firstly, I don't come to internet forums in an attempt to win friends (obviously ) Secondly, although I may have hurled a few insults Darkhorse's way, my argument itself was based on pure reason.

I did not say that I disagreed with your arguments...only your tone.

Look, I sincerely apologise for using such language. (Honestly.) But I use it freely because I don't really regard message boards as a place to have to watch my tongue/manners and observe other "social norms".
OK..so are you saying that you find this a place where you don't HAVE to conform to "social norms"? You are a closet sociopath? " (I am not saying you are....I just think you left yourself open for that because it was just too easy)......yeah, we all behave differently in front of our mothers. But still within "social norms" even when mom isn't around. Or most of us do.


I use internet message boards as way to gather information from others and to post a differing point of view when I have one. Okay?

So are you saying that you go to ET to take info, and argue when you disagree? How about MAKING A CONTRIBUTION?

If you even take 5 minutes to view the material contained in the sites I posted you'll quickly realise that they're anything but a "hate group". Open your mind, what do you have to lose?
Go look at that first one again....tell me it isn't devised to provoke hatred, resentment, anger, defamation...take your pick.

I am neither pro/anti israel nor palestinians. I am pro finding a solution that will enable mankind, as a whole, to live in peace.
Just not with anyone you disagree with.



Great, now I'm being accused of racism also. Well, for your information dude, I've been on the receiving end of enough racial hatred and mistrust to last me a life time.
I really appologise...really. The klan thing was uncalled for. I am sorry! I too feel that our enemies are evil. I just don't think it is fair to include a whole religion in the twisted beliefs of the fanatical fringe elements...which is what i perceived as the beliefs brought forth in those websites...particularly the first. As far as the others, to each his own..I could care less what a person believes or doesn't as long as they don't try to force it on me. Or do any damage to make their points.

Sorry for any misunderstanding and I am sure there has been plenty.
RS7

 

[goldenarm]

You guys have too much time on your hands for such long-winded rhetoric! I'd like to reply but I go out on Friday nights!

RS7, I just like busting your chops! Call me a devil's advocate! You're right, the Jews are a hard working bunch. They turned Israel into a flourishing country and they built the US financial and entertainment industries. They deserve all the credit in the world. But the way they treat Palestinians is morally abhorrent.

 

[candletrader]

Let's widen this discussion up...

We have exhaustively covered the threat of Islamic Terrorism to Israel... although Israel continues to be a major victim of Islamic Terrorism, I would like to broaden this discussion out a bit...

Other areas of consideration:
1) The threat of Islamic Terrorism to the USA (sleeper cells, funding through the US financial system to overseas, abuse of student visas, Islamic ghetto areas as a breeding ground for Terror)
2) The threat of Islamic Terrorism to mainland Europe, in particular terrorism emanating from the Algerian and Moroccan communities in southern France
3) The threat of Islamic Terrorism to Russia, primarily Chechnyan and Dagestani Terror
4) The threat of Islamic Terrorism to India, with the remnants of Al-Quaeda regrouping in Kashmir
5) The threat of Islamic Terrorism to China, specifically in the Xinjiang province, which borders on Afghanistan, Pakistan and Central Asia
6) Islamic Terrorism in the Phillipines, including the role of Abu Sayef in the kidnapping and murder of Americans and Europeans
7) The pivotal role of Saudi Arabia (supposedly an "ally"), as a chief sponsor of international terrorism, through its oil-based revenues
8) The ambiguous role of Pakistan as both an "ally" and a global training ground for Islamic Terrorism
9) The necessity (or otherwise) for regime change in places such as Iraq, Iran, Syria and elsewhere
10) The scope for more integrated co-operation between the CIA, Mossad, MI6, post-Soviet KGB and others...

 

[rs7]

Originally posted by goldenarm
You guys have too much time on your hands for such long-winded rhetoric! I'd like to reply but I go out on Friday nights!

RS7, I just like busting your chops!

But the way they treat Palestinians is morally abhorrent.

What makes you think that where I am it was Friday nite? Besides I am an old married guy with 3 kids....don't get out like I used to anyway

I think that the Israeli treatment of palestians in the west bank and gaza is absolutely "morally abhorrent". Maybe it is just a side effect of fear.

Their treatment inside the "green line" seems to be just fine. Certainly you don't hear complaints from the palestinians themselves that live within the "green line"..at least those that remained and became citizens....which was more than they were allowed to do in their neighboring countries. Their so called "brothers in arms". Keep in mind that the palestinians that went to those other countries were truly kept in concentration camps. (No... not "death camps" like Germany had....refugie camps in which they were "concentrated").

 

[rs7]

Originally posted by candletrader
Let's widen this discussion up...

I agree with every word. I just have no idea how to deal with the problems in an effective way.

Certainly bombing terrorist sponsored nations, or nations that sponsor terrorism can't work. Might feel good, but will only result in more hatred.

Money and education would seem to make sense, but then again, these were obtained by Mohommad Atta and his crews, and that didn't work.

Intelligence agencies compete instead of cooperate. Maybe it has gotten better since 9/11 like they tell us. In 1980 the CIA went to try and rescue the hostages in Iran. The Mossad could have helped to plan it, but the CIA had no interest. Too much pride. So our guys died trying and nothing was accomplished except victory for terrorism and embarasement for the CIA and US Forces.
Also when the IAF bombed Bagdad to destroy their nuclear facility, the USAF said that they didn't know how F-16s could do that mission. Pretty sad, and pretty amazing. (as a side note, I remember on "60 Minutes" after that event, the USAF had questions about how the Israelis were able to detect attacks from behind on those early F-16's....now I don't know squat about their warning systems, and it was a long time ago. All I do remember is that the Israeli Air Force went to Pep Boys (or something like them) and bought rear view mirrors and mounted them in their cockpits).

Maybe the only way to deal with these extremist elements is to infiltrate and eliminate them. Just easier said than done.

It is certainly a f%@ked up world. And the issues are too complicated for a simple solution. But we can't stop trying. That is for sure!!!!!!
RS7

 

[traderfut2000]

On the Bombings

17 Sep 2001 15:21:36 -0000

By Professor Noam Chomsky


The terrorist attacks were major atrocities. In scale they may not reach the
level of many others, for example, Clinton's bombing of the Sudan with no
credible pretext, destroying half its pharmaceutical supplies and killing
unknown numbers of people (no one knows, because the US blocked an inquiry
at the UN and no one cares to pursue it). Not to speak of much worse cases,
which easily come to mind. But that this was a horrendous crime is not in
doubt.

The primary victims, as usual, were working people: janitors, secretaries, firemen, etc. It is likely to prove to be a crushing blow to Palestinians and other poor and oppressed people. It is also likely to lead to harsh security controls, with many possible ramifications for undermining civil liberties and internal freedom.

The events reveal, dramatically, the foolishness of the project of "missile defence." As has been obvious all along, and pointed out repeatedly by strategic analysts, if anyone wants to cause immense damage in the US, including weapons of mass destruction, they are highly unlikely to launch a
missile attack, thus guaranteeing their immediate destruction. There are innumerable easier ways that are basically unstoppable. But today's events will, very likely, be exploited to increase the pressure to develop these systems and put them into place. "Defence" is a thin cover for plans for militarization of space, and with good PR, even the flimsiest arguments will
carry some weight among a frightened public.

In short, the crime is a gift to the hard jingoist right, those who hope to
use force to control their domains. That is even putting aside the likely US
actions, and what they will trigger -- possibly more attacks like this one,
or worse. The prospects ahead are even more ominous than they appeared to be
before the latest atrocities.

As to how to react, we have a choice. We can express justified horror; we
can seek to understand what may have led to the crimes, which means making
an effort to enter the minds of the likely perpetrators. If we choose the
latter course, we can do no better, I think, than to listen to the words of
Robert Fisk, whose direct knowledge and insight into affairs of the region
is unmatched after many years of distinguished reporting.

Describing "The wickedness and awesome cruelty of a crushed and humiliated
people," he writes that "this is not the war of democracy versus terror that
the world will be asked to believe in the coming days. It is also about
American missiles smashing into Palestinian homes and US helicopters firing
missiles into a Lebanese ambulance in 1996 and American shells crashing into
a village called Qana and about a Lebanese militia paid and uniformed by
America's Israeli ally hacking and raping and murdering their way through
refugee camps." And much more. Again, we have a choice: we may try to
understand, or refuse to do so, contributing to the likelihood that much
worse lies ahead. 9/13/2001