Evil Doers blow up university students
- Thread starter candletrader
- Start date
I'll explain why. But firstly, let me get some things straight.
First, something is only considered "terrorism" when it happens to us (USA, the western world). Otherwise, the USA is guilty of sponsoring terrorism for the past 50 years. (Nicaragua, Iran, Cuba to name but a few).
Secondly, given that the system of government and the standard of living enjoyed by the USA is unrivaled in the world throughout any period in history, I believe it should be a model for the world to emulate. Of course, there are many countries in the world that do not share this admiration for the American way and would seek to destroy it. America simply has to take a leading role in international politics - she is the lord protector of the civilised, western way of life.
Now, to Islam. Any measure to curb Muslim Terrorists that does no take into account the real problem - Islam itself - is only going to be a temporary stop-gap. Why? Read on.
Unlike the Christian Bible (which I do not support in any way, shape or form, let me say), where only small parts of it quote God himself as speaking, the Koran is regarded by Muslims as a near verbatim account of God's (Allah's) revelation to Muhammed. While modern, liberal Christian theologians are acutely aware of the mass of contradictions and outright absurdities present in the Bible, and have thus interpreted and re-interpreted it so many times and in so many different ways that its value as a religious document or historical record has dropped faster than a falling Nasdaq, Islamic scholars enjoy no such freedom. To contradict the Koran is to directly contradict Allah himself; and Allah is always forthcoming with encouragement for his faithful minions to utilise any means necessary to squelch any blasphemy! (Recall the Salmon Rushdie, "Satanic Verses" saga..)
So, why then is it such a problem that the Koran is the unquestionable word of Allah? Well, if the word of Allah said something like, "Hi, I'm Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. I recommend you believe in me and worship me, cos if you do, when you die, I am gonna shower you with gifts and pleasures beyond your wildest dreams! But, if you choose not to, that's okay, I won't be offended (afterall, I've given you scant evidence for of my existance
), but, boy, you sure are gonna miss out on some goodies later..", it would not be a problem at all. But the word of Allah says no such thing. In fact, FAR from being a message of peace and compassion (as the press, politicians, bleeding hearts camps, and muslims themselves (who've probably never read the damn thing) would have you believe), it is, instead, replete with directives to "kill the unbelievers wherever we find them" (Q 2:191), "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Q. 9:5), "And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah" (Q002.193). Of course, most Muslims (I would say a nice-sized majority) would never engage in such brutal acts of terror toward non-believers. I have had many Arab (Lebanese) and Turkish friends - who, it seems, were only too willing to contravene Allah's order to: "(O ye who believe!) Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends"(Q005.051). There is simply no way in the world that I am implying that Arabs, Turks, Persians or any other Muslims as a PEOPLE are the problem, only their RELIGION. Islam isn't a religion of peace - it is a religion of divinely inspired violence and hatred! Muslims who are not violent and hateful - the majority, as I said - simply are not practising real Islam. Simple.
There is growing popular support in many Arab nations for the government to become MORE theocratic and to apply Shariah (Islamic Law) more broadly. In such a scenario, no matter how tolerant and peace-loving Arabs are (or become) as a whole, it is only going to be a matter of time before some fanatic(s) takes the Koran at its word and commits an act or violence (terror) towards someone or some group. The problem is, according to Shariah and the Koran, he would be entirely justified in doing so! Appalling! Truly, Islam has to be one the worst things to happen to mankind in history!
Have you really read the Koran?????
The prophet Mohammed said to the muslims : "always behave the best possible way with people of the book who are the jews and the christians..." Jews and Christians were under the protection of muslims when muslims ruled the world...
May be you have read some silly propaganda but I can assure you that this is quite far from the truth. Islam in itself means peace... a religion labelled peace that wants others to be killed that's quite strange...
However, and I said it before, the most criminal religion in history of mankind is certainly christianity... Ask the indians, black people in Africa and in the US.... and also the jews themselves... when they were prosecuted in the 15th century by ""christians""" where did they go???? to muslim countries....
and even recently with the nazism (christians) and even the French... those people escaped europe and left for North Africa, a muslim region...
One thing you should know is that arab muslims and jewish always lived in peace... what is happening in Israel is more the result of the weak knowledge of Jewish form eastern europe that were prosecuted by german polish russian... and thought that arabs were alike... they never really lived in an arab country and so they did not understand arabs were not their ennemies.... This is the truth.. arab jews love their country ask a real arab jew what he thinks of the place he lived in and you will be quite surprised.. during easter you have many jew that come back to their country of origin to celebrate their fiest..
When the nazis came and asked the king of morocco to put a yellow star on jews, he answered I will never put a star on a moroccan citizen.... this guy was muslim...
Now Of course there are crazy terrorists.. But as I said before you will always find crazy people wherever you go... and as long as humiliation will continue all those killings from both sides won't stop but will certainly provok a third war... This is not what I want neither do any normal human being... recall Marlon Brando in the god father.. enough killings vengeance calls for vengeance...
Concerning the US.. of course this is a powerful country but once again it is certainly not an example for the rest of the world... Don't go to a muslim country and just ask a mexican what he thinks about the americans... I don't think you are quite appreciated in this part of the world or even in the rest of south america.... why ... the arrogance... remember Panama, Grenada, Cuba and lately Venezuela.....
The prophet Mohammed said to the muslims : "always behave the best possible way with people of the book who are the jews and the christians..." Jews and Christians were under the protection of muslims when muslims ruled the world...
May be you have read some silly propaganda but I can assure you that this is quite far from the truth. Islam in itself means peace... a religion labelled peace that wants others to be killed that's quite strange...
However, and I said it before, the most criminal religion in history of mankind is certainly christianity... Ask the indians, black people in Africa and in the US.... and also the jews themselves... when they were prosecuted in the 15th century by ""christians""" where did they go???? to muslim countries....
and even recently with the nazism (christians) and even the French... those people escaped europe and left for North Africa, a muslim region...
One thing you should know is that arab muslims and jewish always lived in peace... what is happening in Israel is more the result of the weak knowledge of Jewish form eastern europe that were prosecuted by german polish russian... and thought that arabs were alike... they never really lived in an arab country and so they did not understand arabs were not their ennemies.... This is the truth.. arab jews love their country ask a real arab jew what he thinks of the place he lived in and you will be quite surprised.. during easter you have many jew that come back to their country of origin to celebrate their fiest..
When the nazis came and asked the king of morocco to put a yellow star on jews, he answered I will never put a star on a moroccan citizen.... this guy was muslim...
Now Of course there are crazy terrorists.. But as I said before you will always find crazy people wherever you go... and as long as humiliation will continue all those killings from both sides won't stop but will certainly provok a third war... This is not what I want neither do any normal human being... recall Marlon Brando in the god father.. enough killings vengeance calls for vengeance...
Concerning the US.. of course this is a powerful country but once again it is certainly not an example for the rest of the world... Don't go to a muslim country and just ask a mexican what he thinks about the americans... I don't think you are quite appreciated in this part of the world or even in the rest of south america.... why ... the arrogance... remember Panama, Grenada, Cuba and lately Venezuela.....
http://www.counterpunch.org/estabrook4.html
Some extracts.... who is the real danger for humanity... please bring me facts and not stupid propaganda.. even your allies in europe do not agree with the way international policy is made...
But I do agree nobody has the courage to stop that and everybody is so implied...
In just the decade 1991-2001, the leaders of the US have sponsored massacres -- from Colombia to Turkey -- that killed many more people than died in the September 11 atrocities _at the rate of at least one per year_. We manage to ignore these murders, as we could not ignore the murders in New York, but the rest of the world has noticed them. And they also notice that the US is intending to do it again, in reprisal for the September 11 attacks.
American killing has in fact already begun, even while the "Bush team," Congressionally plenipotent, temporized on exactly whom to bomb. The _New York Times_ reported on September 16 that the US demanded that Pakistan end the convoys that provide much of the food from the UN and NGOs to Afghanistan's civilian population. With Afghans starving after a three-year drought, the US is by this action simply killing many of them. The casual murder of Iraqi children ("worth the price," according to Clinton's Secretary of State) is being repeated here, without comment in the US -- but it's noticed in the rest of the world.
So it comes down to [3] -- telling the truth and shaming the devil, as Hotspur says. The Pentagon and the putative president have announced that this will be the most secret war ever. It won't be secret from those whom the US attacks, but, yes, it has to be secret from those our government fears most -- the US public. Our opposition to Bush's killing can be constructed around the fact that people are not fools. As in Vietnam, when the American people come to know what is being done in their name, they are horrified.
Some extracts.... who is the real danger for humanity... please bring me facts and not stupid propaganda.. even your allies in europe do not agree with the way international policy is made...
But I do agree nobody has the courage to stop that and everybody is so implied...
In just the decade 1991-2001, the leaders of the US have sponsored massacres -- from Colombia to Turkey -- that killed many more people than died in the September 11 atrocities _at the rate of at least one per year_. We manage to ignore these murders, as we could not ignore the murders in New York, but the rest of the world has noticed them. And they also notice that the US is intending to do it again, in reprisal for the September 11 attacks.
American killing has in fact already begun, even while the "Bush team," Congressionally plenipotent, temporized on exactly whom to bomb. The _New York Times_ reported on September 16 that the US demanded that Pakistan end the convoys that provide much of the food from the UN and NGOs to Afghanistan's civilian population. With Afghans starving after a three-year drought, the US is by this action simply killing many of them. The casual murder of Iraqi children ("worth the price," according to Clinton's Secretary of State) is being repeated here, without comment in the US -- but it's noticed in the rest of the world.
So it comes down to [3] -- telling the truth and shaming the devil, as Hotspur says. The Pentagon and the putative president have announced that this will be the most secret war ever. It won't be secret from those whom the US attacks, but, yes, it has to be secret from those our government fears most -- the US public. Our opposition to Bush's killing can be constructed around the fact that people are not fools. As in Vietnam, when the American people come to know what is being done in their name, they are horrified.
Have you really read the Koran?????
Not all of it, no.
The prophet Mohammed said to the muslims : "always behave the best possible way with people of the book who are the jews and the christians..." Jews and Christians were under the protection of muslims when muslims ruled the world...
Could you provide references to me exactly where Mohammed said that? Was it in the Koran, or the Hadith? (Otherwise I'll assume you're just making it up )
May be you have read some silly propaganda but I can assure you that this is quite far from the truth. Islam in itself means peace... a religion labelled peace that wants others to be killed that's quite strange...
"Islam" means "submission" (to the will of Allah). Intersesting how u go from "submission" to "peace"...
Are you denying the Koran gives explicit directions to kill non-believers? Maybe YOU should start reading the Koran..
However, and I said it before, the most criminal religion in history of mankind is certainly christianity... Ask the indians, black people in Africa and in the US.... and also the jews themselves... when they were prosecuted in the 15th century by ""christians""" where did they go???? to muslim countries....
and even recently with the nazism (christians) and even the French... those people escaped europe and left for North Africa, a muslim region...
That is meaningless to me buddy. I despise Christianity nearly as much as I despise Islam. You are right though, Christianity does indeed have a bloodthirsty history.
One thing you should know is that arab muslims and jewish always lived in peace... what is happening in Israel is more the result of the weak knowledge of Jewish form eastern europe that were prosecuted by german polish russian... and thought that arabs were alike... they never really lived in an arab country and so they did not understand arabs were not their ennemies.... This is the truth.. arab jews love their country ask a real arab jew what he thinks of the place he lived in and you will be quite surprised.. during easter you have many jew that come back to their country of origin to celebrate their fiest..
That has nothing to do with anything. My problem is with Islam the RELIGION, not with the people who practise it (or pretend to).
When the nazis came and asked the king of morocco to put a yellow star on jews, he answered I will never put a star on a moroccan citizen.... this guy was muslim...
Fascinating. Again, it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Now Of course there are crazy terrorists.. But as I said before you will always find crazy people wherever you go... and as long as humiliation will continue all those killings from both sides won't stop but will certainly provok a third war... This is not what I want neither do any normal human being... recall Marlon Brando in the god father.. enough killings vengeance calls for vengeance...
I never claimed all terrosists were Muslims - although, these days, the ones making the rounds on the evening news mostly are. The Muslim terrorist is the only one I can think of that has full moral backing for his actions - in fact, as I said, his holy book basically requires him to commit violence!
Concerning the US.. of course this is a powerful country but once again it is certainly not an example for the rest of the world...
That's a topic for another debate. I, obviously, disagree with you and think that America most certainly IS a model for the rest of the world to follow. (a model that can be improved upon, of course). I'll go toe to toe with anyone on this.
Traderfut, you have not addressed ANY of the reasons I proposed for ISLAM being the enemy of mankind. Not one! Stop gushing hot air and attacking America and discuss the issue at hand - otherwise just shut up.
Not all of it, no.
The prophet Mohammed said to the muslims : "always behave the best possible way with people of the book who are the jews and the christians..." Jews and Christians were under the protection of muslims when muslims ruled the world...
Could you provide references to me exactly where Mohammed said that? Was it in the Koran, or the Hadith? (Otherwise I'll assume you're just making it up
)May be you have read some silly propaganda but I can assure you that this is quite far from the truth. Islam in itself means peace... a religion labelled peace that wants others to be killed that's quite strange...
"Islam" means "submission" (to the will of Allah). Intersesting how u go from "submission" to "peace"...
Are you denying the Koran gives explicit directions to kill non-believers? Maybe YOU should start reading the Koran..
However, and I said it before, the most criminal religion in history of mankind is certainly christianity... Ask the indians, black people in Africa and in the US.... and also the jews themselves... when they were prosecuted in the 15th century by ""christians""" where did they go???? to muslim countries....
and even recently with the nazism (christians) and even the French... those people escaped europe and left for North Africa, a muslim region...
That is meaningless to me buddy. I despise Christianity nearly as much as I despise Islam. You are right though, Christianity does indeed have a bloodthirsty history.
One thing you should know is that arab muslims and jewish always lived in peace... what is happening in Israel is more the result of the weak knowledge of Jewish form eastern europe that were prosecuted by german polish russian... and thought that arabs were alike... they never really lived in an arab country and so they did not understand arabs were not their ennemies.... This is the truth.. arab jews love their country ask a real arab jew what he thinks of the place he lived in and you will be quite surprised.. during easter you have many jew that come back to their country of origin to celebrate their fiest..
That has nothing to do with anything. My problem is with Islam the RELIGION, not with the people who practise it (or pretend to).
When the nazis came and asked the king of morocco to put a yellow star on jews, he answered I will never put a star on a moroccan citizen.... this guy was muslim...
Fascinating. Again, it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Now Of course there are crazy terrorists.. But as I said before you will always find crazy people wherever you go... and as long as humiliation will continue all those killings from both sides won't stop but will certainly provok a third war... This is not what I want neither do any normal human being... recall Marlon Brando in the god father.. enough killings vengeance calls for vengeance...
I never claimed all terrosists were Muslims - although, these days, the ones making the rounds on the evening news mostly are. The Muslim terrorist is the only one I can think of that has full moral backing for his actions - in fact, as I said, his holy book basically requires him to commit violence!
Concerning the US.. of course this is a powerful country but once again it is certainly not an example for the rest of the world...
That's a topic for another debate. I, obviously, disagree with you and think that America most certainly IS a model for the rest of the world to follow. (a model that can be improved upon, of course). I'll go toe to toe with anyone on this.
Traderfut, you have not addressed ANY of the reasons I proposed for ISLAM being the enemy of mankind. Not one! Stop gushing hot air and attacking America and discuss the issue at hand - otherwise just shut up.
rs7, I am surprised to hear that! When I was in sales, we had a little saying, "a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."
My goal really isn't to 'convince' anyone of anything. Although my view is based purely on reason, my hope is that people will be persuaded to think critically and examine the issue themselves. If the examination is based on cold, hard reason, I'm sure it will turn up a similar conclusion to the one I make.
Are you sure
You are asking me about facts and what you brought were just affirmations about the fact that Islam has to be one the worst things to happen to mankind in history!â
And my question to you is how can you say that.. Prove it with historical facts not affirmationsâ¦. I know about the crimes made by Christianity but Islam has never ever in all its history been as bloody and cruel as Christianity. So how can you say that⦠even jews that are supposed according to the medias to be hated by the muslims were protected by them..
So once again how can you say that.. and stop talking about kuran.. you know nothing about it, and the propaganda sites you read are far from the truth⦠Have a real intellectual argumentary and not with a big mac 
I brought to you historical facts not affirmations please do the sameâ¦
Ok dude
You are asking me about facts and what you brought were just affirmations about the fact that Islam has to be one the worst things to happen to mankind in history!â
And my question to you is how can you say that.. Prove it with historical facts not affirmationsâ¦. I know about the crimes made by Christianity but Islam has never ever in all its history been as bloody and cruel as Christianity. So how can you say that⦠even jews that are supposed according to the medias to be hated by the muslims were protected by them..
So once again how can you say that.. and stop talking about kuran.. you know nothing about it, and the propaganda sites you read are far from the truth⦠Have a real intellectual argumentary and not with a big mac
I brought to you historical facts not affirmations please do the sameâ¦
Ok dude
We might recall that those Arabs of Spain were fairly tolerant of Christians and Jews, while we gave rise to the ghettoes, and that Saladin, when he reconquered Jerusalem, was more merciful to the Christians than the Christians had been to the Saracens when they took over Jerusalem