Evidences that support the reliability of the Bible

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studentofthemarkets

studentofthemarkets

Been thinking for a while I might start a thread to link sites that show evidences that support the reliability of the Bible.

Came across this one today. Watched it while demo trading slow moving 5 min candlesticks on the Nasdaq.


EXODUS REVEALED!! Hard Evidence in Red Sea of Israelite's Escape from Egypt

Time Stamps:

6:12 Dr. Frank Moore Cross, Professor Emeritus, Harvard University: “There is again, plenty of extra biblical as well biblical evidence of constant moving back and forth between Palestine and Egypt particularly in times of famine.”

9:22 Archeologists uncovered a village in the area of Goshen, Egypt, that appears to be Hebraic. Narrator: “Constructed near the time Joseph was believed to have lived in Egypt."

13:30 Several evidences discussed for the Israelites to have entered Canaan around 1400 to 1200 B.C.

Then discussion on how the Israelites left Egypt and eventually arrived in Canaan.

31:17 In an area that could have been where the Israelites camped in the wilderness there is a rock split in half that possibly could have been where God split the rock to provide water for the thirsty Israelites.

39:45 Dr. Lennart Moller, Karolinska Institute, Stockholm, Sweden: “Well, I’m a scientist. So I try to analyze things and I try to go to the bottom with different issues and the goal for this trip is to look at the Bible text as a book of history, a book of historical events and that they describe something as real, as happened. And then from the text, try to understand what really could have happened.” Led a search for evidence that resulted in finding chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea in a place where the Israelites could have crossed.

41:00 Discussion of a specific path that meets the Biblical account.

1:00:00 Possible wheel of from Egyptian chariots found at the bottom of the Red Sea where the crossing could have occurred.

1:02:00 Another wheel found. This one is a gilded wheel, likely made of gold or silver and gold.


EDIT:

I now believe the finding of the gold wheel was a hoax.

Also, Dr. Lennart Moller did not make it clear that the gold wheel was claimed to have been found by another, Ron Wyatt, years earlier, who has a bad reputation for inventing archaeological findings. This appears dishonest to me and I so I am uncertain as to whether or not I should trust his judgment that the structures he (Dr. Moller) found are likely to be chariot wheels.

https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2018/10/11/fake-news-in-biblical-archaeology/

In contrast to hoaxes like this, there is good research being done by respected scholars and archaeologists that has confirmed numerous details of the biblical account of Israel in Egypt5, identified the likely Pharaoh of the Exodus6, and highlighted evidence for the actual date of the Exodus.7 8 9


The rest of the information in the video is presented by others who I have no reason, at this time, to suspect of being dishonest.

I apologize for not looking up the validity of the claims made before posting the video.
 
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studentofthemarkets said:
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1:00:00 Possible wheel of from Egyptian chariots found at the bottom of the Red Sea where the crossing could have occurred.

1:02:00 Another wheel found. This one is a gilded wheel, likely made of gold or silver and gold.
More...


Gee, kinda' like that "face on Mars" pic of a small mound with funny shadowing on a setting sun showing possible proof aliens had colonized Mars.

If these "scientists" really thought they found a gilded wheel in the coral, they would just excavate the thing!

Or would that kill the spotted owl in the pacific northwest of North America so it can't be touched?

It is so confusing. Just like all the people thinking that somehow Exodus could be real. WTF cares? So the Jews ran away from slavery.

No, Moses did not part the fucking Red Sea, and water did not flow from a split rock. Get a grip, people.
 
studentofthemarkets said:
39:45 Dr. Lennart Moller, Karolinska Institute, Stockholm, Sweden: “Well, I’m a scientist. So I try to analyze things and I try to go to the bottom with different issues and the goal for this trip is to look at the Bible text as a book of history, a book of historical events and that they describe something as real, as happened. And then from the text, try to understand what really could have happened.” Led a search for evidence that resulted in finding chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea in a place where the Israelites could have crossed.
More...

I generally do not like to criticize people for their credentials but when it's used in such an obvious way to gain undeserved authority it must be addressed. He deals primarily in DNA research by the admission on his website. A far, far different field than archeology and as far as I can tell has not published any archeological research in a peer reviewed journal. So I'm left to question Moller's ability to properly conduct archeological research. This is important because bad archeological research is worse than none at all.

There is no doubt the bible is a story book with explanations from laypeople of yore to explain natural phenomena. It is unsurprising to find that biblical stories are sometimes traceable to the physical world. In fact, it's entirely expected. Religion has been used to explain the world prior to the rigorous search for knowledge that science has created. The problem with using God as an argument is it's not rigorously verifiable. It is not enough to just claim something that presently cannot be understood is attributable to a higher power. If we followed that logic we would've never split the atom.

studentofthemarkets said:
Been thinking for a while I might start a thread to link sites that show evidences that support the reliability of the Bible.
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However, what it appears you are doing here is using some physical evidence of perhaps something related to the bible to justify the mysticism. This is not good science. For example, the assumption that a rock being split "could possibly" be related to God. Not only is this impossible to prove (see: Pascal's Wager) if I was to present you physical evidence it was caused by lightning or an earthquake you would simply attribute these natural phenomenon to a heavenly intervention. Unfortunately that argument leads no where and I'm unwilling to argue with someone who will simply use God as an explanation for anything unclear.



To be clear I have no intention to sway you away from religion. I do have intention to convince you that the scientists you have linked in this post and previous posts are doing a disservice. It is okay for you to believe what you believe. However, to present such weak evidence as scientific fact is the exact opposite of what science actually is. It feels more to me that you are attempting to convince yourself rather than present a well reasoned argument to convince others.
 
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studentofthemarkets said:
Been thinking for a while I might start a thread to link sites that show evidences that support the reliability of the Bible.

Came across this one today. Watched it while demo trading slow moving 5 min candlesticks on the Nasdaq.


EXODUS REVEALED!! Hard Evidence in Red Sea of Israelite's Escape from Egypt

Time Stamps:

6:12 Dr. Frank Moore Cross, Professor Emeritus, Harvard University: “There is again, plenty of extra biblical as well biblical evidence of constant moving back and forth between Palestine and Egypt particularly in times of famine.”

9:22 Archeologists uncovered a village in the area of Goshen, Egypt, that appears to be Hebraic. Narrator: “Constructed near the time Joseph was believed to have lived in Egypt."

13:30 Several evidences discussed for the Israelites to have entered Canaan around 1400 to 1200 B.C.

Then discussion on how the Israelites left Egypt and eventually arrived in Canaan.

31:17 In an area that could have been where the Israelites camped in the wilderness there is a rock split in half that possibly could have been where God split the rock to provide water for the thirsty Israelites.

39:45 Dr. Lennart Moller, Karolinska Institute, Stockholm, Sweden: “Well, I’m a scientist. So I try to analyze things and I try to go to the bottom with different issues and the goal for this trip is to look at the Bible text as a book of history, a book of historical events and that they describe something as real, as happened. And then from the text, try to understand what really could have happened.” Led a search for evidence that resulted in finding chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea in a place where the Israelites could have crossed.

41:00 Discussion of a specific path that meets the Biblical account.

1:00:00 Possible wheel of from Egyptian chariots found at the bottom of the Red Sea where the crossing could have occurred.

1:02:00 Another wheel found. This one is a gilded wheel, likely made of gold or silver and gold.
More...

Good ol' Frank Turek at it again. How wonderful. LOL
 
gaussian said:
However, what it appears you are doing here is using some physical evidence of perhaps something related to the bible to justify the mysticism. This is not good science. For example, the assumption that a rock being split "could possibly" be related to God. Not only is this impossible to prove (see: Pascal's Wager) if I was to present you physical evidence it was caused by lightning or an earthquake you would simply attribute these natural phenomenon to a heavenly intervention. Unfortunately that argument leads no where and I'm unwilling to argue with someone who will simply use God as an explanation for anything unclear.
More...

I do agree with you that the rock formation is not something we could ever be certain was the rock mentioned in the Bible. I listed it simply because I personally found it interesting that such a rock that has the potential to have been that rock was found in a location close to what could have been Mt. Sinai.

There were other areas and items of interest in the video that I did not list because they are not clear evidences. However, they are interesting to me because they also line up with the biblical account.

I might need to be careful not to list "items of interest" on this thread and stick with actual "evidences." Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Regarding your concern with Dr. Moller's ability in archaeology, it really doesn't make any difference to me who found the chariot wheels. Could have been a local person, for all I care. Unless the team was lying, and I have no reason to think they were, the fact that it was found in an area that matches the Biblical description, is actually of great interest to me. The wheels are evidences from that period of time. Is there evidence that those chariot wheels were actually the ones from the Pharoah and his army that drowned in the Red Sea? That would be probably impossible to prove. However, the wheels are physical evidences that do exist. They do support the biblical account.
 
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Dr. Andrew Snelling
What Are Some Flood Evidences?


"Six of the Best Evidences of the Flood"​
  1. "Sea Creatures buried high in mountains on the continents"

  2. "Rapidly buried plants and animals"

  3. "Rapidly deposited sediment layers right across the continents"

  4. "Long transport distance of sediments"

  5. "Rapid or no erosion between sediment layers"

  6. "Whole rock layer sequences deposited rapidly in quick succession"
Time stamp 4:18 …..”That means the 300 million years never happened. All those rock layers had to be rapidly deposited in quick succession during the flood year. So, you see, when you ask the right question you get the right answers. Who are we going to believe? The scientists who weren’t there, who don’t know everything, sometimes make mistakes? Or the Word of God, Who was there, Who saw what happened and told us what happened during the flood. And what we see in God’s world agrees with what we read in God’s Word."

Dr. Andrew Snelling holds a PhD in geology from the University of Sydney, Australia.
 
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studentofthemarkets said:
Dr. Andrew Snelling
What Are Some Flood Evidences?

"Six of the Best Evidences of the Flood"​
  1. "Sea Creatures buried high in mountains on the continents"

  2. "Rapidly buried plants and animals"

  3. "Rapidly deposited sediment layers right across the continents"

  4. "Long transport distance of sediments"

  5. "Rapid or no erosion between sediment layers"

  6. "Whole rock layer sequences deposited rapidly in quick succession"
Time stamp 4:18 …..”That means the 300 million years never happened. All those rock layers had to be rapidly deposited in quick succession during the flood year. So, you see, when you ask the right question you get the right answers. Who are we going to believe? The scientists who weren’t there, who don’t know everything, sometimes make mistakes? Or the Word of God, Who was there, Who saw what happened and told us what happened during the flood. And what we see in God’s world agrees with what we read in God’s Word."

Dr. Andrew Snelling holds a PhD in geology from the University of Sydney, Australia.
More...

Do these evidences support the flood story from the Bible more than the many conflicting flood stories from other cultures/religions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
List of flood myths
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Jump to navigationJump to search
Flood myths are common across a wide range of cultures, extending back into Bronze Age and Neolithic prehistory. These accounts depict a flood, sometimes global in scale, usually sent by a deity or deities to destroy civilization as an act of divine retribution.

Contents
Africa[edit]
The continent of Africa, even though very large and with many nations and people groups, has relatively few flood legends.[1][2][3][4] African cultures preserving an oral tradition of a flood include the Kwaya, Mbuti, Maasai, Mandin, and Yoruba peoples.[5]

Americas[edit]
North America[edit]
Mesoamerica[edit]
South America[edit]
Canari[edit]
Inca[edit]
Mapuche[edit]
Muisca[edit]
Tupi[edit]
Asia[edit]
Ancient Near East[edit]
Sumerian[edit]
Mesopotamia[edit]
Abrahamic religions[edit]

The Deluge, c. 1896–1902, by James Jacques Joseph Tissot
China[edit]
India[edit]

The Matsya avatar comes to the rescue of Manu
  • Manu and Matsya: The legend first appears in Shatapatha Brahmana (700–300 BCE), and is further detailed in Matsya Purana (250–500 CE). Matsya (the incarnation of Lord Vishnu as a fish) forewarns Manu (a human) about an impending catastrophic flood and orders him to collect all the grains of the world in a boat; in some forms of the story, all living creatures are also to be preserved in the boat. When the flood destroys the world, Manu – in some versions accompanied by the seven great sages – survives by boarding the ark, which Matsya pulls to safety.
  • Puluga, the creator god in the religion of the indigenous inhabitants of the Andaman Islands, sends a devastating flood to punish people who have forgotten his commands. Only four people survive this flood: two men and two women.
Korea[edit]
Malaysia[edit]
Philippines[edit]
Once upon a time, when the world was flat and there were no mountains, there lived two brothers, sons of Lumawig, the Great Spirit. The brothers were fond of hunting, and since no mountains had formed there was no good place to catch wild pig and deer, and the older brother said: "Let us cause water to flow over all the world and cover it, and then mountains will rise up."[13]

Thailand[edit]

The Origin of Humans from A Massive Magical Gourd, by Suradej Kaewthamai
There are many folktales among Tai peoples, included Zhuang, Thai, Shan and Lao, talking about the origin of them and the deluge from their Thean (แถน), supreme being object of faith.

  • Pu Sangkasa-Ya Sangkasi (Thai: ปู่สังกะสา-ย่าสังกะสี) or Grandfather Sangkasa and Grandmother Sangkasi, according to the creation myth of those Tai people folktales, were the first man and woman created by the supreme god, Phu Ruthua (ผู้รู้ทั่ว). A thousand years passed, their descendants were wicked and crude as well as not interested in worshiping the supreme god. The god got angry and punished them with a great flood. Fortunately, some descendants survived because they fled into an enormous magical gourd. Many months passed, the supreme god had compassion on the humans that had to live in the difficult period of their life, so he had two deities Khun Luang and Khun Lai climbed down a massive vine linking an island heaven that floated in the sky to the earth in order to drill the enormous gourd and take the surviving humans to a new land. The water levels had been come down already and there was the dry land. The deities helped the surviving people and led them to the new land. When everyone arrived in the land called Mueang Thaen, the two deities taught the humans how to cultivate rice, farming and building structures. [14]
Taiwan's Saisiat Tribe[edit]

This section does not cite any sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.
Find sources: "List of flood myths" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR (November 2019) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)
An old white-haired man came to Oppehnaboon in a dream and told him that a great storm would soon come. Oppehnaboon built a boat. Only Oppehnaboon and his sister survived. They had a child, they cut the child into pieces and each piece became a new person. Oppehnaboon taught the new people their names and they went forth to populate the earth.

Europe[edit]
Classical Antiquity[edit]
Medieval Europe[edit]
Irish[edit]
Welsh[edit]
Norse[edit]
Bashkir[edit]
Modern era folklore[edit]
Finnish[edit]
Oceania[edit]
Polynesia[edit]
References[edit]
  1. ^ Witzel, E.J. Michael (2012). The Origins of the World's Mythologies. Oxford University Press. p. 345. ISBN 978-0-19971-015-7.
  2. ^ Witzel, E.J. Michael (2012). The Origins of the World's Mythologies. Oxford University Press. p. 284. ISBN 978-0-19971-015-7.
  3. ^ Martinez, Susan B. (2016). The Lost Continent of Pan: The Oceanic Civilization at the Origin of World Culture. Simon and Schuster. p. 220. ISBN 978-1-59143-268-5.
  4. ^ Gerland, Georg (1912). Der Mythus von der Sintflut. Bonn: A. Marcus und E. Webers Verlag. p. 209. ISBN 978-3-95913-784-3.
  5. ^ Lynch, Patricia (2010). African Mythology, A to Z. Chelsea House. p. 45. ISBN 978-1-60413-415-5.
  6. ^ "Choctaw Legends". Retrieved 2020-07-18.
  7. ^ Jump up to:a b c d e f g h i j "Native American Indian Flood Myths". www.native-languages.org. Retrieved 2020-02-18.
  8. ^ SENĆOŦENStory – ȽÁUWELṈEW, FirstVoices.com
  9. ^ "Archived copy" (PDF). Archived from the original (PDF) on 2014-06-11. Retrieved 2015-11-06., Grand Council Treaty #3, The Government of the Anishinaabe Nation in Treaty #3
  10. ^ Flood Stories from Around the World, Innuit - TalkOrigins.org
  11. ^ In The Beginning of the Nisqually World
  12. ^ Orowignarak flood myth at talkorigins.org
  13. ^ Philippine Folklore Stories, by Mabel Cook Cole, 1916, at sacred-texts.com
  14. ^ Na Thalang, Siriporn (1996). การวิเคราะห์ตำนานสร้างโลกของคนไท : รายงานการวิจัย. Chulalongkorn University.
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ph1l said:
Do these evidences support the flood story from the Bible more than the many conflicting flood stories from other cultures/religions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths
More...

This is a great question.

Yes, the evidences from physical science do support a global flood more than local flood explanations.

The fact that there are so many flood stories, even if conflicting, is very interesting. Logically speaking, wouldn't it seem that if the biblical account is correct and the human race was wiped out except for the 8 people on board the ark, then as people multiplied and dispersed, each of the groups would feel that their clan began after being saved from a large flood? The stories would change, just like kids whispering a sentence and passing it on in the game “telephone.” The original sentence rarely looks anything like what the last kid ends up saying, but sometimes there is a resemblance.

According to “The Flood of Noah and the Flood of Gilgamesh“ https://www.icr.org/article/noah-flood-gilgamesh/ , “There have been numerous flood stories identified from ancient sources scattered around the world.4 The stories that were discovered on cuneiform tablets, which comprise some of the earliest surviving writing, have obvious similarities. Cuneiform writing was invented by the Sumerians and carried on by the Akkadians. Babylonian and Assyrian are two dialects of the Akkadian, and both contain a flood account. While there are differences between the original Sumerian and later Babylonian and Assyrian flood accounts, many of the similarities are strikingly close to the Genesis flood account.”

The video I’m posting in the next post is also about physical evidences of a global flood. I might post some more resources for more evidences for a global flood at some point.
 
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2 minute video

That’s a Fact: Global Flood
https://www.icr.org/article/thats-fact-global-flood/

“Continuous water deposited rock layers span whole continents. That doesn’t happen with local or regional floods today.”

“Some of the highest mountain peaks including Everest have fossilized marine creatures.”

“Most geologists say that the extensive rocks and fossils must have taken great lengths of time to form. But this extends today’s slow paced local geologic processes into the past by overlooking earth’s evidence for a fast paced catastrophic world wide flood’s effects.”


This video is produced by ICR.

ICR conducts laboratory, field, theoretical, and library research on projects that seek to understand the science of origins and Earth history. ICR scientists have conducted multi-year research projects at key locations such as Grand Canyon, Mount St. Helens, Yosemite Valley, and Santa Cruz River Valley in Argentina, and on vital issues like Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth (RATE), Flood-Activated Sedimentation and Tectonics (FAST), the human genome, soft tissue in fossils, and other topics related to geology, genetics, astro/geophysics, paleoclimatology, paleobiochemistry, and much more. https://www.icr.org/who-we-are
 
studentofthemarkets said:
According to “The Flood of Noah and the Flood of Gilgamesh“ https://www.icr.org/article/noah-flood-gilgamesh/ , “There have been numerous flood stories identified from ancient sources scattered around the world.4 The stories that were discovered on cuneiform tablets, which comprise some of the earliest surviving writing, have obvious similarities. Cuneiform writing was invented by the Sumerians and carried on by the Akkadians. Babylonian and Assyrian are two dialects of the Akkadian, and both contain a flood account. While there are differences between the original Sumerian and later Babylonian and Assyrian flood accounts, many of the similarities are strikingly close to the Genesis flood account.”
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But these came before the Genesis version, so I'd think the story in the Bible was borrowed from an earlier one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth
Although the story of Noah in the Hebrew Bible is the most well-known flood myth in Western culture, it shows the influence of earlier narratives from Mesopotamia. The nineteenth-century Assyriologist George Smith first translated a Babylonian account of a great flood,[2] and further discoveries produced several versions of the Mesopotamian flood myth, with the account closest to that in Genesis being found in a 700 BC Babylonian copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh.[3] Many scholars believe that this was copied from the Akkadian Atra-Hasis,[a] which dates to the 18th century BC.[5] In the Gilgamesh flood myth, the highest god Enlil decides to destroy the world with a flood because humans have become too noisy. The god Ea, who created humans out of clay and divine blood, secretly warns the hero Utnapishtim of the impending flood and gives him detailed instructions for building a boat so that life may survive.[7][8] Another Mesopotamian flood myth is the 17th century BC Sumerian creation myth.[9]
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And from the same web page,
A worldwide deluge, such as the one described in Genesis, is incompatible with modern scientific understanding of natural history, especially geology and paleontology.[20][21] In an early example of ichnology, Leonardo da Vinci explains in his notebooks that the fossils of marine shells would have been scattered in such a deluge, and not gathered in groups, which were evidently left at various times on mountains in Lombardy; he also doubts that so much water could have evaporated away from the Earth.[22]


Excavations in Iraq have revealed evidence of localized flooding at Shuruppak (modern Tell Fara, Iraq) and various other Sumerian cities. A layer of riverine sediments, radiocarbon dated to about 2900 BC, interrupts the continuity of settlement, extending as far north as the city of Kish, which took over hegemony after the flood. Polychrome pottery from the Jemdet Nasr period (3000–2900 BC) was discovered immediately below the Shuruppak flood stratum. Other sites, such as Ur, Kish, Uruk, Lagash, and Ninevah, all present evidence of flooding. However, this evidence comes from different time periods.[23] The Shuruppak flood seems to have been a localised event caused through the damming of the Karun River through the spread of dunes, flooding into the Tigris, and simultaneous heavy rainfall in the Nineveh region, spilling across into the Euphrates. In Israel, there is no such evidence of a widespread flood.[24] Given the similarities in the Mesopotamian flood story and the Biblical account, it would seem that they have a common origin in the memories of the Shuruppak account.[25]
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