Evangelicals Question The Existence Of Adam And Eve

[stu]

Quote from Wallet:

This primarily is a trading forum correct? U a trader? Have you ever perused the forums seeing some guy sprouting some new system or setup and you know he's full of it by what he writes?

Well the problem is, don't take offense because non intended, that's exactly what you sound like.
Not a new set up, but studying the bible until you've curve fitted it, is no better

Quote from Wallet:

That applies to a lot of things........ and without going into personal backgrounds let me assure you, I've spent more than just a little time researching and studying the Bible....... and when someone sprouts off this or that, it's easy to spot an agenda or misunderstanding after you spend some time. The Bible is consistent from Genesis to Revelations, it's not my interpretation Stu, there's only one true interpretation and it all points to a singular TRUTH , but many, MANY, like to fragment it and pull out of context it's text to promote some personal agenda.

No Wallet, there isn't just one interpretation. If there is, then it's your own. As I say, that is a big problem right there.
The bible is quite clearly and obviously full of inconsistency and contradiction. Only when you interpret all of it away does it then point to YOUR own personal so called truth.
Doing that quite honestlly, is known as kidding yourself.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Wallet:

No, you may have spent 50 years in a church but you didn't have a personal relationship with God, nor I'd say did you spend more than a cursory amount of time in the Word....... FT all your commentary concerning the Bible and Christianity is at introductory levels, mainly focusing on presumed fallacies and inconsistencies.......

I repeat pick up a bible with a good study guide and STUDY IT.

i suggest you start by researching the history of the bible. who wrote it and why. then when you read concepts in there that defy logic you will be able to look at them with your eyes open.
no one who is deluded realizes it at the time they believe the delusion.

the easiest myth in the bible to start your journey to intellectual honesty on is the myth of the great flood. if that flood happened it had to leave evidence. once you educate yourself to the fact that a global flood never happened and the bible is just wrong it becomes easier to ask the questions about the other myths that will free your mind from the bondage of biblical superstition.
i suggest you start here: http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p82.htm
From the mid-seventeenth (c. 1650 AD) to the mid-eighteenth century (c. 1750 AD), a range of British mathematicians, naturalists, and clerics from the Church of England attempted to demonstrate that belief in a global biblical deluge was perfectly compatible with extrabiblical knowledge and the latest theoretical developments in mechanistic science. They maintained that the fact that such a deluge had occurred could now be established not only on the basis of biblical authority but also on mathematical and scientific grounds. Their various theories reflected different conceptions of natural theology, the roles of science and theology, and the bearing of Scripture on the interpretation of nature. Their diluvial cosmogonies provided a mainstream scientific paradigm that stimulated hard thought, biblical exegesis, widespread geological observation, and some of the earliest geological experiments.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Intellectual honesty is a skill that has to be learned and a virtue that has to be practiced; it often requires you to accept unpleasant conclusions. (John B. Hodges)

 

[Wallet]

Quote from stu:

Well the problem is, don't take offense because non intended, that's exactly what you sound like.
Not a new set up, but studying the bible until you've curve fitted it, is no better



No Wallet, there isn't just one interpretation. If there is, then it's your own. As I say, there is a big problem right there.
The bible is quite clearly and obviously full of inconsistency and contradiction. Only when you interpret all of it away does it then point to YOUR own personal so called truth.
Doing that quite honestlly, is known as kidding yourself.

Everyone likes to debate nuances, do you baptize by immersion or sprinkling.... was wine "wine" (fermented) or grape juice, and such etc....

But the Nature of God is consistent and Holy in it's dispensational dealings with man, from the first page to the last......... God is who He says He is Holy (unable to tolerate any sin) and Just in His decree that all sin will be judged.... Mankind is sinful and separated spiritually from God because of his sin, unable by his own device or will to save himself from judgment.... God by His Grace provided one way to reconcile this debt of sin owed by man.

Stu, the entire Bible points to this.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Wallet:

Mankind is sinful and separated spiritually from God because of his sin, unable by his own device or will to save himself from judgment.... God by His Grace provided one way to reconcile this debt of sin owed by man.

Stu, the entire Bible points to this.

so you reject science to believe a book because you fear you are unworthy because some mythical character ate an apple many years ago?



The very concept of sin comes from the bible. Christianity offers to solve a problem of its own making! Would you be thankful to a person who cut you with a knife in order to sell you a bandage?--- -Dan Barker, Losing Faith in Faith

 

[Wallet]

Quote from Free Thinker:

i suggest you start by researching the history of the bible. who wrote it and why. then when you read concepts in there that defy logic you will be able to look at them with your eyes open.
no one who is deluded realizes it at the time they believe the delusion.

the easiest myth in the bible to start your journey to intellectual honesty on is the myth of the great flood. if that flood happened it had to leave evidence. once you educate yourself to the fact that a global flood never happened and the bible is just wrong it becomes easier to ask the questions about the other myths that will free your mind from the bondage of biblical superstition.
i suggest you start here: http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p82.htm
From the mid-seventeenth (c. 1650 AD) to the mid-eighteenth century (c. 1750 AD), a range of British mathematicians, naturalists, and clerics from the Church of England attempted to demonstrate that belief in a global biblical deluge was perfectly compatible with extrabiblical knowledge and the latest theoretical developments in mechanistic science. They maintained that the fact that such a deluge had occurred could now be established not only on the basis of biblical authority but also on mathematical and scientific grounds. Their various theories reflected different conceptions of natural theology, the roles of science and theology, and the bearing of Scripture on the interpretation of nature. Their diluvial cosmogonies provided a mainstream scientific paradigm that stimulated hard thought, biblical exegesis, widespread geological observation, and some of the earliest geological experiments.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Intellectual honesty is a skill that has to be learned and a virtue that has to be practiced; it often requires you to accept unpleasant conclusions. (John B. Hodges)

I don't have too FT I have, I studied all the writers that span hundreds and thousands of years of biblical history, I've studied early and later manuscripts of certain books to find consistency in interpretations, to note I've studied the Flood, regional and earthwide theories.... i do not have the time for a lengthy debate of Biblical authenticity.

You look for holes and all I see is the designed footprint of God woven through the fabric of creation, in it's sciences, mathematics, physics, astrophysics, social sciences, even in music theory, it's all inner-related and imprinted on all of it is the handiwork of God, I also see see man warring against this God-inspired natural design on all fronts trying to erase or circumvent it's design....... as for the Bible all I see is God's divinely inspired authorship jumping from the pages.

Enough, good luck guys.

 

[nutmeg]

wow, is willful ignorance fading and education winning?

Kids are illerate when they graduate from school (education is winning)

Adam and eve ? Wtf has that got to do with school/education. I thought we had that separtion fo church and state.

Got any science on Allah?

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from Wallet:

You look for holes and all I see is the designed footprint of God woven through the fabric of creation, in it's sciences, mathematics, physics, astrophysics, social sciences, even in music theory, it's all inner-related and imprinted on all of it is the handiwork of God,

thats exactly what indoctrination is designed to do. keep you from questioning. some of us prefer intellectual honesty. but its your right to believe whatever you want. people believe all kinds of crazy shit. as long as you keep it behind your church doors. if you come out into the public arena the rest of us have a right to demonstrate that what you believe is nonsense.


"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of
spiritual things, but -- more frequently than not -- struggles against the
divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God."
father of modern Protestant christianity, Martin Luther

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from nutmeg:


Adam and eve ? Wtf has that got to do with school/education.

have you heard that christians fight every day to have biblical creation taught in school as a fact?

 

[Wallet]

Quote from Free Thinker:

thats exactly what indoctrination is designed to do. keep you from questioning. some of us prefer intellectual honesty. but its your right to believe whatever you want. people believe all kinds of crazy shit. as long as you keep it behind your church doors. if you come out into the public arena the rest of us have a right to demonstrate that what you believe is nonsense.

Yep, and when you misrepresent and misquote the Bible in an effort to promote your crazy shit, you're going to get called out as well.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Dont you find it interesting that before the belief in God, that humans lived like animals. Then 6000 years ago when God came into the picture, everything slowly got better for humans. Writing systems came along, the use of math came along. Farming methods were developed, villages were created and then towns & cities. All AFTER the belief in God. Before the belief in God, man left no evidence that man even existed.

here we have a guy who believes the earth is only 6000 years old yet every day science all around him screams he is wrong. and we are not supposed to riddicule his beliefs?


Dead Sea level fluctuated wildly … eons before the world was made

Fresh cores taken from the bottom of the Dea Sea indicate it fluctuated wildly for tens of thousands of years and may have dried up once or twice along the way:
(ScienceDaily) Directed by Prof. Zvi Ben-Avraham of TAU’s Minerva Dead Sea Research Center and Prof. Mordechai Stein of the Geological Survey of Israel, researchers drilled 460 meters beneath the sea floor and extracted sediments spanning 200,000 years. The material recovered revealed the region’s past climatic conditions and may allow researchers to forecast future changes.Layers of salt indicated several periods of dryness and very little rainfall, causing water to recede and salt to gather at the center of the lake. During the last interglacial period, approximately 120,000 years ago, the sea came close to drying up entirely, the researchers found, with another period of extreme dryness taking place about 13,000 years ago.
That last one fits like a glove with the Younger Dryas stadial, a time of jagged climate shifts that kicked off the gentle Holocene Epoch we all know and love. But no one dare speak of climate change!

It also puts the history of a beloved Old Testament icon well outside the boundary of recent special creation our young earth friends know and love even more. They so adore it that they cannot help but feel bewildered when others do not. For they so loved their ill begotten cosmogony that they sacrificed their only remaining brain cell in its name and now demand it be taught as fact by science and history teachers with a straight face. Their admiration for all the right things supernatural is profound, so deep, so incapacitating that not only have they fallen head over heels, enraptured, arms outstretched and tasting spiritual embrace into a pit of irrevocable ignorance, they genuinely cannot fathom why the whole world does not gleefully dive in with them.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/zingula...tuated-wildly-eons-before-the-world-was-made/