ETG Revisited

Your situation is actually very simple.

Any place that can offer you a salary and you don't have to sell yourself to it for many years, go for it, in this market condition nothing beats a salary when you are a newbie, absolutely nothing, although I think you will have a hard time finding any firm that is actually offering a salary in this market climate.

Then there is Worldco, which I firmly believe is literally the only way to go if plan A does't work out. If you have debt then serious think twice before commiting to something like this, it is highly unlikely that you will get a check first six months when you are brand new and you need at least that much living expenses saved up.
 
I really am trying to get a job with a salary, but sadly nothing. I can take a job as a Broker, but what I have heard is that once your a broker your always going to be labeled a broker.

I am going to be in NYC on mon and tues, the 25th and 26th..so I am going to go to worldco and give them my resume and fill out the application. If you want to meet, please send me a personal message or send somthing to my email address. I know that most of you, who have survived the dot com bomb know what you are talking about. Any advice would be greatful.

I am strugling here and not sure what to do. I can not pay my college debt for 6 months post grad and another 3 after if needed. I figure 9 months should be enough time with a fair firm.

thank you trader55
 
My advice is, if you can't pay your bills, don't come here, pressure will kill you before the market does.

Go find a job, any job, save up money, go find a shared room outside of Manhattan, it should run quite a bit less than $500 a month, cut down your living expenses to a minimum while you study for the S7 / S55 exams, compromise.

Then when you have at least six month's worth of living expenses saved up, go for it. FWIW, I had 20K in my bank account before I went to Worldco, and I earned every penny.

I can not imagine what kind of idiot would offer you or anyone else for that matter a salary in this environment, when he is already eating your losses that will inevitably pile up.
 
I replied to this thread which you placed in the Trading forum but I'll say it again here:

I was offered a position with ETG which I didn' t take, and I'm sure there is no salary. I was told from the beginning there was no salary and to make sure I had enough to live on for up to a year, i.e. working spouse, savings, part-time job, etc. I'm surprised you weren't told that already. Have you asked?!?

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but like Hitman said, why would a firm pay you a salary AND eat your losses, especially in this market?

I'm not faulting ETG, that's just the way it is.

Good luck to you. If ETG does indeed offer you a salary, PLEASE post it here so I can call them back!
 
why should a firm focus not only its capital on you in the sense of trading but also paying you a salary? right?

Well, I guess none of you ever studied labor Economics in college. For starters a salary relieves fears of employees having to eat, paying bills and allowing for them to relax on their time. These things all make you much more productive and much more valuable to the firm, ie you stay there because you are fearful of loosing your pay check.

I know creating successful trading business is hard, but why do you think MS, GS, Leh Bros., pays a salary, probably the same reason that you can only get an Eco degree from an IVY league. not a finance degree!

Think about that, maybe you will understand.
 
<i>Well, I guess none of you ever studied labor Economics in college.</i>

Whoa, easy there college boy.

The prop business model of paying the trader a draw just isn't around any more. During the boom days it made sense, but now it just does not. Things have changed. It is now harder to make money, and the traders who make money are making less.

Regardless of what your text books said, this is just reality.
 
Because MWD, GS, LEH, MER all lost money from their prepriatory trading division in 2001? And this is including the massive profit they make from order flow which has nothing to do with trading skills?

Get your facts straight, they did make money from order flow, but that is a totally different game compared to their actual prep trading division.

And the cold hard truth is, there are plenty of people who would jump at the opportunity to work with OUR capital WITHOUT a salary, and they CAN work every bit as HARD as those that want a salary.
 
Guys, I do understand your point and I know that when it comes down to hard work salary does not matter. if you are a hard worker, you study your charts, you do your research and study tactics of other traders-you are going to be a successful trader. i do not mean to step anyones toes hear. My intention is to get as much information about the field, and compare it to the "text book" learning i have done.

Hitman, I want to work for a good firm that pays me the highest amount of money, of course. but as you have said to me, and to others, a salary in the beginning is much better than one could think. What are the reasons, same ones I said in the prior post. I know that many are interested in Trading with your firms capital and learning from your firm. But what if you were offered a salary? Especially now, would you take it? Even if it ment you lost a lot of your possible gain from trading. (Exp: instead of 90% payout, you got 25% but 50K salary)

We know that buldge braket banks lost a lot of capital, but they are still hiring.(Lightly, and only if you have incredible credentials) I for one do not have those great credentials, and I am guessing many of you out there on this forum are in the same boat. Think about if you were offered a salary, maybe you would not work so hard, or maybe your judgement would not be clearer. Exp. Hitman, on your web page, you say you cant hold on past a dollar, is this because your gut says sell, or are you to focused on preserving your capital?

Just a question.
 
Okay,

Did anyone relize that we are all thinking in the short-term. maybe a little to much.

Long-term is that the market will go up. Simply because of inflation, population, and demand(Say's law). but, a firm has the ability to think long-term, this no matter what you think is the perfect time for a trading firm. You are still trading and allowing them to charge desk fees, comissions, etc..

They are getting guys like myself for nothing, (excluding of course if I suck and loose a lot of money!) Example, ETG, I calculated with pay out, desk fee, and 500 droped on series 7,55 stuff, that I would need to generate around 10cents per share on a lot of shares to make myself atleast able to pay those bills. That is a lot, especially for a beginner. Also I am not talking about profit, I am talking about the cost I incur @ the firm.

Just my 2 cents thrown in.
 
The basic difference has been outlined many times....traders are independent business owners (their own trading business), which requires capital, expertise, time, and all the rest. Salaries are for people put into a temporary position of value (by temporary I mean that most salaried positions anywhere don't last...ala Arthur Andersen and Enron, Dean Witter, etc. etc.).

The idea of starting a business is exciting to some people, and scary to others. Go to these God Awful "Franchise Fairs" and see people plop down tens of thousands of dollars on some stupid "magnet" franchise or something similar.

Mr. Kanter (ETG) is a smart businessman, and I respect him....and I don't think he will spend money to have someone else do what he could do for himself (simply trade). If you can get a "no cash" shot at trading (watch out for the obvious payouts, etc.) then consider that a "free franchise" opportunity, take a second job to pay your bills (we have many newbies who do that...of course, we are in a "24 hour city")...and go for it.

After you are a proven commodity (successful trader), then you can "shop around" much like a good baseball player for a better deal.

It's tough for young people, and that is why we have Internship programs at several Universities, where Seniors can come in, learn to trade, pass their Series 7 (we pay for it all), and then have an opportunity to trade with us with zero money down. We will do that after the graduate has shown us how serious and how good they are.

I wish you luck!!
 
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