ETFs killing futures

L

local_crusher

When, after a long time, I today looked over volume figures for Globex, the thing formerly known as CBoT and ETFs, I was shocked:

Did everybody realize, that alone on the Spiders, todays volume equalled ~850.000 ES contracts !

If you count in all the other short, triple and quadruple shit, volume (delta) traded will probably mount up into ES trading dimensions.

This also applies to other products, like bonds or commodities.

While futures are far superior from the point of product design, it appears ETFs will win the game.

Many guys seem to do what I'v done long ago: leave pits/colo facilities and go back to retail type trading.


Thoughts?
 
Why is this bad?

Markets evolve. We have to evolve with them.

So long as whoever pulls the strings behind the ETF scene has enough political juice to keep stocks/futures interests at bay, more great trading vehicles will be forthcoming on that front.

Look at single stock futures. Totally marginalized by the concessesions the big boys made them pay by and pretty much a non issue.

ETF's did their homework.
 
A lot of that volume was probably in the last few minutes today. Is that retail?

IMO you explained the reason yourself - the futures are a superior product. Maybe whoever's generating that volume doesn't want a superior product.

Quote from local_crusher:

When, after a long time, I today looked over volume figures for Globex, the thing formerly known as CBoT and ETFs, I was shocked:

Did everybody realize, that alone on the Spiders, todays volume equalled ~850.000 ES contracts !

If you count in all the other short, triple and quadruple shit, volume (delta) traded will probably mount up into ES trading dimensions.

This also applies to other products, like bonds or commodities.

While futures are far superior from the point of product design, it appears ETFs will win the game.

Many guys seem to do what I'v done long ago: leave pits/colo facilities and go back to retail type trading.


Thoughts?
More...
 
The point is, futures exch would need to lower their fees to re-gain their incencitive.

Making ppl pay 2 Dollars for a few bytes to run through some wires does not look advantageous
 
You have to be a compulsive gambler to trade futures. Most people don't want to gamble like their money like a futures trader does, so they trade ETFs instead. ETFs > futures.
 
Quote from kxvid:

You have to be a compulsive gambler to trade futures. Most people don't want to gamble like their money like a futures trader does, so they trade ETFs instead. ETFs > futures.
More...

:confused:
 
Quote from local_crusher:

The point is, futures exch would need to lower their fees to re-gain their incencitive.

Making ppl pay 2 Dollars for a few bytes to run through some wires does not look advantageous
More...

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Doesnt look like they're suffering. ;)
 
Yeah I know.

However, if you look at Bonds or Eurodollar volumes, it's just terrible.

IMO they need to change their business model:

1) Get rid of that seat / retail sh*t
2) New fee model that differences between add / take liquidity, like the ECNs !
 
Why is futures a superior product design? From the perspective of an unlevered investor looking to take a long term view, etfs seem to be the suitable instrument.

Quote from local_crusher:

When, after a long time, I today looked over volume figures for Globex, the thing formerly known as CBoT and ETFs, I was shocked:

Did everybody realize, that alone on the Spiders, todays volume equalled ~850.000 ES contracts !

If you count in all the other short, triple and quadruple shit, volume (delta) traded will probably mount up into ES trading dimensions.

This also applies to other products, like bonds or commodities.

While futures are far superior from the point of product design, it appears ETFs will win the game.

Many guys seem to do what I'v done long ago: leave pits/colo facilities and go back to retail type trading.


Thoughts?
More...
 
Quote from kxvid:

You have to be a compulsive gambler to trade futures. Most people don't want to gamble like their money like a futures trader does, so they trade ETFs instead. ETFs > futures.
More...

What is the difference between buying 800 QQQQs and 1 NQ?
 
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