ES vs ER2

What futures contract do you trade and why?

  • ES

    Votes: 24 31.6%

  • ER2

    Votes: 34 44.7%

  • NQ/YM

    Votes: 14 18.4%

  • Other Future Contract (QM,EC...ect)

    Votes: 2 2.6%

  • Don't trade Futures

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .
Quote from gerry875:

i've been trading the minis since the end of 2001. i am absolutely not an expert - i'm just telling my conclusions based on what i've been able to watch so far.

i don't think that rising volume alone is necessarily bad - but the more volume a product has - the more interesting it gets for all kind of market participants. right now the russell is of course the best contract for smaller traders.

just compare the movements of ES and ER2 on a short time frame these days - almost every time the ER2 has the much higher volatility. for example - while the ES is moving barely 1 point ($50) - the ER2 might be gone for 3 points ($150) - or at least 2.

what is the reason for this? the ES seems like a fat and lazy animal most of the time - while the ER2 is dynamic and moves further with less pullbacks. if ER2's volume keeps rising this fast (at the moment we see more than 100K contracts almost every day) there will be more and more big traders and robot trading in it (and hence more efficiency i'd say) - which i don't see as an advantage - but i hope i'm wrong.

just read this file:

http://www.cme.com/files/emini.pdf

search for "volume" - you will find 3 diagrams that show the development of the avg. daily volume of ES, NQ and ER2 since they've been created - pretty impressive.
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I wasn't exactly calling you out bro. I have just heard this opinion so many times. And I was wondering where it comes from. All new traders or "newer traders" tend to have this opinion. The idea that big volume is bad in other products because of what happened to the spoo is flawed.

First off, there are only so many big traders around. Although it is not easy scalping above 50 lots in the ER2 ---it can be done. You can get into large positions. You cannot just hit thousand lots like in the ES. Remember one thing tho----the spoo is 2 markets ---the ER2 is one dominate electronic market.

Now that a trend is underway and volatility is RISING in all stock markets. You should see that your trading in the ES is getting easier and more profitable. Especially, if you are any kind of momentum player. The big days of the spoo will come around again. The ES has been hampered by the machine ONLY because of the lower volatility coupled with the order protocols and the pit. These things have acted synergistically to F@#CK up the product--IMO. They now have the order protocol up to 1500 and soon it will be all you can eat---to kill the pit. Notice how over the past month with VOL starting to rise the ES has gotten a little better? That is because the order protocols are higher.
 
Quote from TGM:

I wasn't exactly calling you out bro. I have just heard this opinion so many times. And I was wondering where it comes from. All new traders or "newer traders" tend to have this opinion. The idea that big volume is bad in other products because of what happened to the spoo is flawed.

First off, there are only so many big traders around. Although it is not easy scalping above 50 lots in the ER2 ---it can be done. You can get into large positions. You cannot just hit thousand lots like in the ES. Remember one thing tho----the spoo is 2 markets ---the ER2 is one dominate electronic market.

Now that a trend is underway and volatility is RISING in all stock markets. You should see that your trading in the ES is getting easier and more profitable. Especially, if you are any kind of momentum player. The big days of the spoo will come around again. The ES has been hampered by the machine ONLY because of the lower volatility coupled with the order protocols and the pit. These things have acted synergistically to F@#CK up the product--IMO. They now have the order protocol up to 1500 and soon it will be all you can eat---to kill the pit. Notice how over the past month with VOL starting to rise the ES has gotten a little better? That is because the order protocols are higher.
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i know what you mean - but one thing is a fact for me:

i trade off a 1 min. chart and tend to hold a position for about 5-15 minutes - and when you watch those two markets - it is obvious that ES is an absolutely listless mover compared to the russell. and when you take this and consider that the russell has even the smaller tick size and the smaller margin requirement (well - not much - but nevertheless - for some reason it is lower than ES's - although russell's volat. is higher every single day) - these are more than enough reasons for me to focus on the ER2 right now.

anyway - good trading to you.
 
Quote from gerry875:

i know what you mean - but one thing is a fact for me:

i trade off a 1 min. chart and tend to hold a position for about 5-15 minutes - and when you watch those two markets - it is obvious that ES is an absolutely listless mover compared to the russell. and when you take this and consider that the russell has even the smaller tick size and the smaller margin requirement (well - not much - but nevertheless - for some reason it is lower than ES's - although russell's volat. is higher every single day) - these are more than enough reasons for me to focus on the ER2 right now.

anyway - good trading to you.
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OH no argument from me! Seeing as I am trading the ER2 this minute! I believe a traders time is much better spent in the ER2 than the Spoo. Cheers.

Oh and look out for the EurexUS products. They are doing their margins correctly. CME keeps it's margins artificially high for political reasons. The Russell 1000 and the Russell 2000 on the Eurex US are correctly margined. Take a look and you will know what I mean. The spoo is vastly over margined. It should have about the same margin as the Russell 1000 on Eurex US ---about 1500 bucks. Of course, they are not as good for scalping ---because they do not have the volume. But with 1.40 commissions and the better margins --they are picking up volume. I have been throwing positions on there. Sometimes paying up a little. Something to keep in mind. Take a look at them ---the volume cab be deceiving with the market makers.
 
Quote from joeyata1:

what's the best commission ou there for somebody doing 1000 plus contracts a month on the er2? i've read you can get $3 roundtrip with no platform charges. give some examples what people are paying to trade the es,ym and er2. personally i trade the ym's the most and the er2's next. they both move with deadly speed in volatile situation s. like last friday when the market tanked the er2's were down % wise twice the other indexes . it was a tought bottom to catch but the suckers ran 7 pts in 1 hr
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Joey,

If you are holding postions for longer than a few minutes ---look at the ER2 on Eurex US. The Russell 1000 is the same as the spoo (it is a close beta of the sp 500). Better margins and dirt cheap commissions ---1.41. I have been getting in and out of 15-30 lots on the Eurex US ---no problem. I am not scalping them --like I do on CME. But I have decided a month back to move positions that I plan on holding for 30 mins or overnight over the EurexUS. Keep your eye on them. If you are using TT pro --you got them already. Or if you are using IB --check them out. Volume is deceiving because of the market makers.
 
Quote from TGM:

Joey,

If you are holding postions for longer than a few minutes ---look at the ER2 on Eurex US. The Russell 1000 is the same as the spoo (it is a close beta of the sp 500). Better margins and dirt cheap commissions ---1.41. I have been getting in and out of 15-30 lots on the Eurex US ---no problem. I am not scalping them --like I do on CME. But I have decided a month back to move positions that I plan on holding for 30 mins or overnight over the EurexUS. Keep your eye on them. If you are using TT pro --you got them already. Or if you are using IB --check them out. Volume is deceiving because of the market makers.
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I am using symbol WR2 with IB for the Russell 2000 mini Eurex US at the moment I dont have a bid ot ask. CME is showing bid ask.
 
Quote from Rickshaw Man:

I am using symbol WR2 with IB for the Russell 2000 mini Eurex US at the moment I don't have a bid ot ask. CME is showing bid ask.
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They are supposed to be like 24 hours. However, at night I have yet to see the market makers. I only work positions during the day on Eurex US. Anything at night got to stick to cme and cbot.

Rickshaw, during the day You can get your price. Sometimes, I have to pay up. But for holding positions it is dirt cheap in both commissions and margin is more realistic. I mean look at the damn margin for the Naz mini. You have to post a ton of money and you get zero bang for your buck.
 
Quote from Rickshaw Man:

I am using symbol WR2 with IB for the Russell2000 mini EurexUS

at the moment I dont have a bid ot ask. CME is showing bid ask.
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Do you want us to enter some limit orders ?

Then you will a bid and ask ...
 
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