es vs. equally liquid instrument

[punisher]

Yeah, I mean you're right as far as your PnL.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "lose." I want to buy @ 100 but the ask is 101. My market order fills at 101. In my mind, I have already "lost" one tick on the entry.

The inside bid/offer doesn't move and suddenly I want out @ 101 but with a market order, I'm filled @ 100. That's my second tick loss although the PnL will just read a loss of one tick.

Assuming a loss of two ticks per round trip is a good approach if you're backtesting an ES algo, for example. If you have a more sophisticated slippage model then you might not have to be so conservative.

you're mixing up "last traded price" with bid/ask. market might be down to 100/101 and price might never even reach 100 bid, so placing market buy order and being filled at 101 could get you in at the lowest tick, therefore your "I have already lost one tick on the entry" is wrong.

you cross spread once per RT on market orders. you are always free to place limit orders and get in line to get filled (or not).

 

[punisher]

A thousand tick chart can print a regular high low open close or candle type chart every thousand transactions or thousand contracts (two variations.)

you meant "volume chart" for that other variation?

 

[speedo]

you meant "volume chart" for that other variation?

Those are variations on how to compute what goes into a tick bar. There are many variations of chart types including Kagi, Renko, Market Profile etc..

 

[shatteredx]

you're mixing up "last traded price" with bid/ask. market might be down to 100/101 and price might never even reach 100 bid, so placing market buy order and being filled at 101 could get you in at the lowest tick, therefore your "I have already lost one tick on the entry" is wrong.

you cross spread once per RT on market orders. you are always free to place limit orders and get in line to get filled (or not).

Yeah that's true. You could definitely be getting in at the lowest tick with a market buy.

Or, if the market moves, you could end up crossing the spread on the both the entry and the exit.

I'm just looking at it from a backtesting perspective. My algo uses market orders. To be conservative, I assume that I'll have to cross the spread twice per round trip.

 

[murray t turtle]

Please excuse my mentioning that this is something of a "category error", MTT: tick charts don't have to be line charts.

Tick charts can be constructed as line charts, candle charts, bar charts, or whatever else - just as timed charts and constant-volume charts can.

You're not comparing like with like, saying that you "prefer candle charts to tick charts": those aren't two alternatives. They're descriptions of different classification categories. "Tick charts" can be "candle charts".

%%
OK, thanks Xela. I simply dont like small time charts, line charts or 5 minute candle charts, or barcharts, or tickcharts or ticks[ bugs]. I really dont even like 5 minute candle charts; i may enter on them but i still dont like them. BUT it take$ all kinds to make a market....................................................

Its not just me; LOL even Don Bright Daytrading Co does NOT not like 5 minute charts. If you do , fine with me.Wisdom is profitable to direct.

 

[Xela]

OK, thanks Xela. I simply dont like small time charts, line charts or 5 minute candle charts, or barcharts, or tickcharts or ticks[ bugs]. I really dont even like 5 minute candle charts

I won't argue with you there. (Personally, I trade only from constant-volume charts, and use bars rather than candles - but that's just personal preference, and what suits me.)

 

[murray t turtle]

I won't argue with you there. (Personally, I trade only from constant-volume charts, and use bars rather than candles - but that's just personal preference, and what suits me.)

%%
IBD {Investors Business Daily, newspaper} uses red white + blue bar charts, 50dma, 200 day moving average. {I personally prefer candles , but a ''railroad track top'', IBD pattern, shows up best on 2 week barcharts.}

barchart.com snap opinion, has a buy rating of 40%, DIA;LOL that sounds like a 60 +% sell LOL. IBD noted the DOW is easily manipulated.
I'm still long tern uptrendish on SPY, UPR, SPXL,QQQ, oil, Xela, it [SPY, ES]may make a higher high in May, but like i told Buy1Sell2, ''that sure is a weak uptrend, SPY, ES''

barchart has a 67% long term sell on TGT[ nickname for TGT = trash stock,LOL]

 

[murray t turtle]

No brainer, beginners should run away from leverage. Trade ETF SPY NOT ES FUTURE
.

%%
Very very true.SPY can be like ''watching paint dry'', which takes about 4 or 24 hours , with stormy weather ,minimum@72 degrees.SPY can be very boring .ES is much more exciting+ nothing quite like a kid jump into a gorilla cage, as reported on the news, past 52 week/+. DO NOT try that @ home.LOL