ES option markets with IB ... MISSING!

R

riskarb

Are nonexistent today in March options. A bunch of March strikes with no markets, some one-sided. The options that do show a bid/offer are 5up!!

WTF IB, get your sh*t together. I've personally got >1000 ES contracts on and would love to have the peace of mind of viewing a market in this stuff, can't even trade it synthetically, since no calls OR puts.

riskarb
 
Quote from riskarb:

Are nonexistent today in March options. A bunch of March strikes with no markets, some one-sided. The options that do show a bid/offer are 5up!!

WTF IB, get your sh*t together. I've personally got >1000 ES contracts on and would love to have the peace of mind of viewing a market in this stuff, can't even trade it synthetically, since no calls OR puts.

riskarb
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the options under the hypersnap logo are the 1060p and 1025p - obviously, I'm short the 1060p//1025p backspread.

riskarb
 

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Scary screenshot. That software looks like it was coded by a kindergarten play group.

But then again you will find that REDI is a hack and other so-called "real time" software with very little fault tolerance or redundancy built into it. Look at the problems with the CBOE and ARCA quotes today. I have no doubt that one of these days these systems are going to be hacked, resulting in pure havoc.
 
Quote from PoundTheRock:

Scary screenshot. That software looks like it was coded by a kindergarten play group.

But then again you will find that REDI is a hack and other so-called "real time" software with very little fault tolerance or redundancy built into it. Look at the problems with the CBOE and ARCA quotes today. I have no doubt that one of these days these systems are going to be hacked, resulting in pure havoc.
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Couldn't agree more... I'm there due to the ability to trade futs and equity index ops, but on days like this I queston my sanity for trading such a platform.

F*ck it, I'm taking my marbles and going with a true FCM. To think I actually considered moving all my capital to IB.

riskarb
 
Are you sure it's an IB issue?

I trade futures options on the ES (and have positions in the same stuff) and have seen the same 5ups all day. A few months back, all the bids/offers disappeared for a few hours. I called Globex and asked what was up. According to them, there are no "MMs" for futures options on the electronic side, just brokers who decide to make a market. Some days there are 3 or 4 of them, other days it seems all of them leave for hours at a time or aren't there at all, like today.

If no one decides to make a market, all you are left with is retail orders.

Doing the kind of size you are, it seems like you'd want more pit contracts?

Given your background, I doubt I am telling you anything you don't already know, so the question remains...is it IB, or did everyone just leave?
 
Quote from ktm:

Are you sure it's an IB issue?

I trade futures options on the ES (and have positions in the same stuff) and have seen the same 5ups all day. A few months back, all the bids/offers disappeared for a few hours. I called Globex and asked what was up. According to them, there are no "MMs" for futures options on the electronic side, just brokers who decide to make a market. Some days there are 3 or 4 of them, other days it seems all of them leave for hours at a time or aren't there at all, like today.

If no one decides to make a market, all you are left with is retail orders.

Doing the kind of size you are, it seems like you'd want more pit contracts?

Given your background, I doubt I am telling you anything you don't already know, so the question remains...is it IB, or did everyone just leave?
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Right, it's an dearth of MMs issue, and I shouldn't be trading the stuff this large, mea culpa. Won't happen again.

There is no size in anything on Globex today, going to move back to an FCM and trade the pit car. I've never seen it this bad.

riskarb
 
Quote from ktm:

I trade futures options on the ES (and have positions in the same stuff) and have seen the same 5ups all day. A few months back, all the bids/offers disappeared for a few hours. I called Globex and asked what was up. According to them, there are no "MMs" for futures options on the electronic side, just brokers who decide to make a market. Some days there are 3 or 4 of them, other days it seems all of them leave for hours at a time or aren't there at all, like today.
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I'm an equity-option guy, but have traded the big car in futs. Thought it was great to trade the small futures option concurrent with SPX/OEX etc., in the same account.

I've been doing size in ES for 6 months now, first time I've noticed the ES markets evaporate. Goodbye Globex after this trade.

riskarb
 
I have been watching them for a few years. You are correct, I have not seen a full day where there is no one around like this. I have sometimes noticed abandonment by the MMs for a few minutes or even a few hours, usually when the market starts quaking over some potential news - you know when you need them the most. Even when they stay, you pay with the spread.

Tomorrow will be interesting...and I would love to know why the place was empty today. Even though the spreads were wide, I wonder if you could have kept pounding out the 5s if you really had to move something?

When I have been in your spot, I have just taken a bunch of ES futs in the appropriate direction. Even though the futs opts guys are gone, I have not seen the futs side have insufficient liquidity to hedge something about your size. I wouldn't abandon them for today's action alone, rather get a plan utilizing the futs to hedge if needed.

It really is rare to have nothing out there like this - and there is good money to be made in these little contracts.
 
Even more bizarre is the fact that with the recent listing of options on YM, MM's in ES face viable competition in the electronic options on index futs market . The spread on ATM opts in YM have been quoted at around 7 ticks wide. I'm not saying that the franchise on mini-index options is exactly valuable but the timing of this inaction by Globex MM's is a bit curious.
 
Quote from ktm:

I have been watching them for a few years. You are correct, I have not seen a full day where there is no one around like this. I have sometimes noticed abandonment by the MMs for a few minutes or even a few hours, usually when the market starts quaking over some potential news - you know when you need them the most. Even when they stay, you pay with the spread.

Tomorrow will be interesting...and I would love to know why the place was empty today. Even though the spreads were wide, I wonder if you could have kept pounding out the 5s if you really had to move something?

When I have been in your spot, I have just taken a bunch of ES futs in the appropriate direction. Even though the futs opts guys are gone, I have not seen the futs side have insufficient liquidity to hedge something about your size. I wouldn't abandon them for today's action alone, rather get a plan utilizing the futs to hedge if needed.

It really is rare to have nothing out there like this - and there is good money to be made in these little contracts.
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Thanks for the advice, KTM. I am short 28 deltas, so I will gamma trade the position in futs or accumulate some deltas in something other than the ES. I am long a bit of YM delta, but that will be getting shorter with each day.

I made quite a bit of cake in this trade -- I have it on from even-money, but it's pretty disconcerting nonetheless. I would have to fund the account much larger to get the long backspread done in SPX -- as it stands, I can't trade-out synthetically, either since the calls are in the same situation, 5up.

I am always prepared to hold these things to expiration, holding enough cash to get flat, contract for contract.

riskarb
 
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