ES Journal Archive (2006 - 2008)

[Buy1Sell2]

Quote from jagmot:

I used to think this as I got stopped out a lot. As I got better at stop placement, (outside the noise) this was no longer a problem. I do tend to use larger stops though then most.

Good luck I am currently long (see previous post)

If trend has been correctly identified and the trader is trading with the trend, then proper stop placements typically are not "taken out" with as much frequency. Stops must be chart based and then cross referenced with the account size to determine the proper position size. Stops must be outside the noise. You will from time to time give back much of your profit, but over the long haul will generate the large winners needed to move the account balance forward. Stops also need to be trailed outside the noise. Even if the market can see your stop, it generally will not be hit, if trading properly with the trend.

 

[saliva]

Quote from ammo:

i dont use stops often but for b1s2 i stick em in here,he's just trying to keep journal strictly business,which i appreciate

If I ever do get stopped out, I"ll post it as such.

 

[Buy1Sell2]

Quote from saliva:

If I ever do get stopped out, I"ll post it as such.

Doesn't work that way. Sorry--the market doesn't allow it and so we don't here either. I used to not post stops, but then realized that the market could care less about me posting stops.

The reversal occurred today on the 60, the 15 and the 10 today at 1214.75. A stop could have been placed at 1212.75 (outside the noise) and you would still be long right now. The correct stop would now be trailed to 1222.00

 

[kinggyppo]

Buy1 I disagreee with you about gap fills they are very important to me on an intraday and longer time frames. My experience is that gaps fill usually just a matter of time. Here is a big gap fill on GOOG took 3 months to fill. Just one man's opinion.

 

[opt789]

Quote from Buy1Sell2:

All posted trades need to include the exact entry and the exact stop level. Otherwise they are disregarded and considered to be paper trades. The stop level is where the rubber meets the road. This is where the good traders separate themselves from the poor traders. If a person does not wish to post the stop, then please don't post the trade.

We have been through this before.
If you don’t wish to disclose your exact stop, then you can post your worst case stop. B1S2 just used a 39 point stop for a 16 point target.
I imagine most here would have a worst case stop of less than 39 points where you will get out far earlier, so you can just post a wide stop, and then post if you get out early when your actual stop is hit.

 

[Buy1Sell2]

Quote from kinggyppo:

Buy1 I disagreee with you about gap fills they are very important to me on an intraday and longer time frames. My experience is that gaps fill usually just a matter of time. Here is a big gap fill on GOOG took 3 months to fill. Just one man's opinion.

And sometimes the market just continues on . Worse yet, the trader using gap analysis then incorporates volume and begins to question their analysis. Do as you wish, but these are two items that are unneccessary to successful trading.

 

[osorico]

Quote from saliva:

...
If my memory serves me correctly, I explicitly stated that I decline giving out my stops in order to avoid being gunned down...

I remember that... it wasn't a valid argument then and it isn't a valid argument now. If you use stops, they should be posted. If you don't use stops, then say so. Saying that the the ES journal is being monitored by the street, just waiting to be told the ET membership stop placement is just ridiculous.

Osorico

 

[Buy1Sell2]

Quote from opt789:

We have been through this before.
If you don’t wish to disclose your exact stop, then you can post your worst case stop. B1S2 just used a 39 point stop for a 16 point target.
I imagine most here would have a worst case stop of less than 39 points where you will get out far earlier, so you can just post a wide stop, and then post if you get out early when your actual stop is hit.

Certainly. --keeping in mind that the trader using the wide stop will be held accountable by the market --and this thread. Saliva's paper trade is currently down 9 points. I do hope it comes back for him which it probably will sometime.

 

[jagmot]

Quote from Buy1Sell2:

If trend has been correctly identified and the trader is trading with the trend, then proper stop placements typically are not "taken out" with as much frequency. Stops must be chart based and then cross referenced with the account size to determine the proper position size. Stops must be outside the noise. You will from time to time give back much of your profit, but over the long haul will generate the large winners needed to move the account balance forward. Stops also need to be trailed outside the noise. Even if the market can see your stop, it generally will not be hit, if trading properly with the trend.

I should have added that ET and this thread in particular has helped me a lot more in stop placement.

 

[Buy1Sell2]

Quote from osorico:

I remember that... it wasn't a valid argument then and it isn't a valid argument now. If you use stops, they should be posted. If you don't use stops, then say so. Saying that the the ES journal is being monitored by the street, just waiting to be told the ET membership stop placement is just ridiculous.

Osorico

Thanks for following up in support Osorico. I would mention though that while we allow someone to say "no target", we do not allow "no stop". Not defining a stop is disingenuous to the readers of this, the quintessential ES thread at ET. I would also state that someone using a very wide stop, will have their trade disregarded as well, if they come back in in a very very short time frame to state that they exited.