Equity traders have proven themseleves on ET, futures traders remain a mystery

[fearless9]

SpyTrader

Are you suggesting that the OP has failed to present a compelling case for futures traders to post their P&L.

Golly who would have imagined.

Perhaps the OP needs to strengthen his/her request.
Bait the hook and see if they can't snag a futures trader.

We all await with keen anticipation.

regards
f9

 

[PitchBlack]

Equities are traded by everyone, futures are only traded (succesfully) by a few people on ET.
So there is a big difference in professionalisme. And professionals do not disclose that much about their trading as equitytraders do.

The more professional they are, the less they tell.

 

[Lucrum]

I'm not a "big' trader nor do I trade full time. I was, until several months ago, posting daily PnL in the Journals Trader PnL thread. And I trade almost exclusively futures.

I got annoyed when an (admittedly) off topic comment I made was "moderated" a couple of days before my last contribution there. A comment that, days later, a moderator made, almost verbatim, in the Feedback forum. So in protest of the seemingly double standard I stopped contributing. And will not start again.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2030915#post2030915

There is a link the my last post there.
It's simple to go back from there if you got nothing better to do.

Having said all that, I will graciously concede/admit that there seems to be more successful equity traders than futures traders, at least here on ET.

 

[Jayford]

Quote from ChkitOut:

Why have equity traders consistently posted on the P/L thread and shown that yes, it can be done.

Ericp, Lescor, Patrickq, szezen, and others... have consistently posted to show the ebb and flow of equity trading.


No ES, YM, or NQ trader has ever consistently posted p/l.

I'm starting to thing that futures traders are similar to sasquatch or abominable snowman sightings. Or maybe nessie, the loch ness monster.

There are pros making consistent money in all markets.

BTW, futures is a zero sum game. Unlike equities, there is a winner for every loser. That is how the contracts work. Does not matter which direction the markets move. If 90% lose, the 10% that do not are earning all that money, minus a small amount that goes to the wire houses for commish. Based on the total amount traded, commission is minor nowadays. (note: I apologize if someone already covered this. I did not read the entire thread, just the first page).

Except for a brief 1 year stint working at Bright, and 1 year doing the dotcom management thing, my entire career since 1987 has been trading futures. I have been extremely consistent the past decade, and yes, I am primarily a day trader. I would suggest that you don't hear much about futures performance because most people who trade futures profitably are pros, and they do not feel any need to boast here. Most pro traders don't give predictions either. They react, and trade. The reason is a moot point. It's price action and little else that concerns them, ESPECIALLY ES day traders. That is all they care about. Anything beyond the specific day, or even a few minutes out for some, means nothing.

 

[OldTrader]

Quote from ChkitOut:

Why have equity traders consistently posted on the P/L thread and shown that yes, it can be done.

Ericp, Lescor, Patrickq, szezen, and others... have consistently posted to show the ebb and flow of equity trading.


No ES, YM, or NQ trader has ever consistently posted p/l.

I'm starting to thing that futures traders are similar to sasquatch or abominable snowman sightings. Or maybe nessie, the loch ness monster.

I don't regularly read the P/L thread, but I thought svenzn (spelling?) was a futures trader. Maybe I got it wrong.

I've been trading index futures since the beginnings. First Value Line, later S&P beginning in 1982. Now ES.

I've never posted to the P/L thread, although I have read it a few times. I'm not sure I see the point of the P/L thread, whether you're a stock trader or a futures trader. There is little of value in terms of trading information that I've seen there. Guys posting results. What did I miss?

Just an observation: I think day trading ES is a difficult proposition. It becomes easier when it gets more volatile, because there is room. But the essential problem with ES is that there is alot of backing and filling, meaning that it becomes difficult to achieve those 3-1 reward to risk ratios that Austin talks about. For that reason, I think most day traders/scalpers in the ES fail.

Then I notice on ET that alot of guys suggest using stops of a couple or 3 points or so. I personally don't think that works for most people. Some guys say that you can use small stops if you get the entry right...which of course is true. Most guys can't get the entry that right, consistently in my opinion.

My personal opinion is that most of the time the money is made more in a swing trading type of trade. Again, when the market is volatile then day trading results improve. With swing trading you are able to expand your stops so that noise doesn't knock you out, and those 2 or 3 or more rewards to risk become more achievable.

The problem with the swing type of trade is that many of the traders don't have the capital to make it work. And too, there are alot of traders unwilling to hold overnight.

OldTrader

 

[ProfitTakgFool]

Not true. Not even close to being true. You just have to have an edge. If you can trade SPY you can trade the ES

Quote from coolweb:

insanely hard to make money on the S&P500 , DJIA futures.

reason: too much competition.

 

[ProfitTakgFool]

I would agree the futures markets are the most efficient markets but you don't need to have inefficiencies to exploit in order to make money. You just have to understand the behavior of price. A more efficient market is much easier to trade because it behaves in a more predictable fashion.

And because the OP can't make money in the futures market and no futures traders post their PnL doesn't mean no one is making money over there. I'll tell you why futures traders don't post their PnL. If you make it to that market and succeed you are one of the best traders the world has to offer. When you get to that point there is no need to post a PnL on ET because looking at those green numbers is all the affirmation you need. You have MADE it.

Quote from Drock409:

Most consistant money, whether people like to admit it or not, is based on In-Efficiencies.

Whethere its OPGs or MOC's. or pairs, or momentum, etc


That being said, the futures market is probably THE MOST EFFIECIENT MARKET that exists..hence leaving hte opportunity for consistant exploitation of the "inefficiency" to barely if not exist at all

I literally can name over 100 profitable traders that I know PERSONALLY...yet can name 1 consistanly profitable futures trader...and his swings are beyond what I could ever handle

Even one of the best daytraders I know ...a consistant 7 figure guy tried trading futures for 2 months, and gave up saying they are too fast and confusing

 

[ChkitOut]

Quote from OldTrader:


I've never posted to the P/L thread, although I have read it a few times. I'm not sure I see the point of the P/L thread, whether you're a stock trader or a futures trader.

The P/L thread serves two main objectives.

First, it shows newbs or struggling vets that yes, it can be done. Most remote traders will never personally know a successful trader. Its nice to actually see it being done as opposed to just believing that somebody out there is actually doing this.

Second, its gives you a look into what an equity curve may look like. You see an occasional big loss, small wins, big wins, etc. If you follow someones posts for a few months you get an idea of what typical drawdowns may look like, number of down days vs. up days and the relative size of each day. Very informative without actually knowing the guts of their system.

So yes, its very informative for those 2 reasons. The latter being very helpful.

But, you need to consistently post every day for a while, which many have done, and thanks, it was good to see.

I believe one lone ES trader was posting every day for a month or 2 and he blew up. He was nice enough to show the blow up also. Thats keep'n it real.

 

[IronFist]

Quote from qwert:

trading ym is for suckers. the shake outs r terrifying with even one contract and thats trading off longer term charts when reversals r real.

using a stop its always hit, always for a loss

i dont have enough for a margin account anymore and have no choice but trade eminis

been using ninja traders simulator 14 hours a day for the last 2 months and learning alot about the indicators and settings. longer term charts and indicators r the real deal.

Word. I get the direction right a LOT on the YM but I can't stomach 30 points of noise before it actually goes. Fuck that. It's infuriating. Tall bars. I thought I was onto something by switching to constant range bars to eliminate the giant tall bars... but not really (altho it makes the chart much easier to look at because there are no more giant bars out of nowhere... but the range bars still fail because even if you're using some decently smooth value like 15 points per bar, you'll still have cases where like 3 appear at once and you can't trade that fast. So it's still an attack of the tall bars, just in a different format).

NQ is pretty much the same way, it just looks different.

I haven't even tried the ES outside of demo accounts.

 

[hedgeking]

i trade threw a prop shop were the 2 top traders made 750k plus each the past 5 trading days and the top 10 guys all made over 100k the past 5 days. not one person in the shop has ever heard of et.