My point is that he should not be concerned about what others say here. What he is doing is fine and it works for him. Indicators are derivatives of price. You can trade also without them. The key is a proper money management and self-discipline. He has them and the way he trades shows that. Most people search for a Holy Grail hoping that they will find it in some magic indicator or a set of those. Wrong way...
Emini divergence journal
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My point is that he should not be concerned about what others say here. What he is doing is fine and it works for him. Indicators are derivatives of price. You can trade also without them. The key is a proper money management and self-discipline. He has them and the way he trades shows that. Most people search for a Holy Grail hoping that they will find it in some magic indicator or a set of those. Wrong way...
I think that electron meant it as a compliment.
True. I suspect that he could take the KB, the Chai and the ADX off his charts entirely at this point because he knows how the trade is supposed to "look". Those of you who have been doing this for a while will understand what that means. The only thing he'd have to "feel" would be the proper stop.
Indicators, after all, serve primarily as training wheels.
Yep...this is what I, OffShoreTrader and a few others have also said...in different words.
Therefore, its so common for traders to ask someone that's trading profitably about what indicators or price action only methods they are using...
while ignoring the most important piece of the puzzle...
the trader.
If traders will put the same time and energy into designing their self-discipline, money management (risk management) and trader psychology...
as they do into indicators and their settings configuration...
There will be more profitable Emini Futures traders as daytraders.
This is where no_pm_please has excelled.
NihabaAshi
OK, I've heard this many times and I still don't understand it. Let me explain why. For someone like myself who is still trying to find my way in this business, it's a question of what do I do in this "process" called trading where I buy and sell at certain times. So it's really a trading method I'm looking for and it's "simply" a matter of adhering to this method. There is no question of discipline unless one has a strategy. I know of some mechanical strategies which so clearly define when to buy and sell that they could be readily programmed and traded automatically. So clearly here, the trader has no ongoing input to the success of "his" trading.
Clearly there are some strategies that are better than others. So it's quite understandable why the constant search for effective strategies. However, if the strategy rules have a level of discretion built in, then obviously the trader has a direct influence on the outcome. So again, when discretion is called for, it's a question of what to do (i.e. what is the method now?) I'm still trying to figure out whether no_PM's strategy can be fully mechanized. At this point it appears that it can not be. Failing this, it's then a question of will I be able to learn the rules when discretion is called for.
Richard
no pm please
Your trading is declining because your are too engrossed in this forum...and you are truly wasting your time and possibly money..
The negativism is building, so why not leave this forum and start making money again trading without the dark cloud waiting for you each day on this forum. You deserve better.
The negative comments are not good for one's trading.
Best Wishes,
Porgie
Your trading is declining because your are too engrossed in this forum...and you are truly wasting your time and possibly money..
The negativism is building, so why not leave this forum and start making money again trading without the dark cloud waiting for you each day on this forum. You deserve better.
The negative comments are not good for one's trading.
Best Wishes,
Porgie
electron, sorry if I took you too literally.
porgie, perhaps he enjoys the feedback, and sharing with us. Seems like his setups have come along at a natural pace. I really don't see how his trading has declined.
rickty, perhaps you'd like to start or participate in a thread on mechanical vs. discretionary with various money management principles incorporated into the system or method. I don't think that the goal of this thread is to prove whether or not no pm's methods can be made to be 100% mechanical, much as some of us might prefer if they could be
porgie, perhaps he enjoys the feedback, and sharing with us. Seems like his setups have come along at a natural pace. I really don't see how his trading has declined.
rickty, perhaps you'd like to start or participate in a thread on mechanical vs. discretionary with various money management principles incorporated into the system or method. I don't think that the goal of this thread is to prove whether or not no pm's methods can be made to be 100% mechanical, much as some of us might prefer if they could be
If you're still trying to "find your way", I suggest you forget about discretionary trading for the time being as it requires a certain subjectivity that new and newish traders just aren't capable of indulging in.
First, find a profitable strategy that has tolerable risks and drawdowns. If you find a great ES strategy that requires 10pt stops and potential 50pt drawdowns and the thought of that makes you sick, then you need to keep looking for a more compatible strategy.
Second, once you've found that strategy, test it yourself, not by "backtesting", but by going over old charts using the bar interval you plan to trade, bar by bar, maintaining a log of your "hard right edge" trades and noting any problems.
Third, if everything still looks good, paper-trade it until you show consistency in trading. Don't worry about the money. If the strategy is right and you're consistent in trading it, the money will be there. If you end up trying to second-guess the strategy or "feel" the trades, go back to step one.
Fourth, trade it for real. Here's where the discipline issues will come up, either because you get bored or because you haven't nailed down the rules or because you think you're better than the system. Work them out. Go back to three if you have to.
Only when you've achieved complete discipline, are able to execute your system flawlessly, are completely consistent in your trading, and can be objective about what you're doing will you be ready to introduce subjectivity into your trading. But, even then, if you get into trouble, you need only back up a step and return to your "comfort zone".
NPP is able to do what he does because he's traded his system for so long. It's ludicrous to think that a stranger can come in and pick it up like a suitcase and make money off of it from the first day.
You can force discretion into your trading, of course, but you will most likely just postpone that day when you will be completely at ease with your trading. Take the time to build a foundation of discipline and confidence and you'll leave most of your peers in the dust.
Quote from MarkB:
rickty, perhaps you'd like to start or participate in a thread on mechanical vs. discretionary with various money management principles incorporated into the system or method. I don't think that the goal of this thread is to prove whether or not no pm's methods can be made to be 100% mechanical, much as some of us might prefer if they could be
MarkB,
I believe most people reading this thread (and this bulletin board, for that matter) do so to see if there is some information they can use in their own trading. Specifically, for this thread, can no_PM's method be used by others as effectively? If the method is mechanical then the answer is yes, if not, then there's more work to be done, the nature of which is unclear to me at the moment.
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