Ellington Darden on dietary protein, carbs and fat

[Frederick Foresight]

I read Darden's 2004 book, The New High Intensity Training, and found his dietary macronutrient recommendations interesting. He contends that an RDA of 0.36 grams of protein per pound of body weight is sufficient to meet bodybuilding requirements.

He wrote that, in 1970, he even conducted a 2-month experiment on himself to determine if massive amounts of protein were beneficial. He consumed over 300 grams of protein a day during part of the experiment and tested his own urine to determine nitrogen content, which is a measure of protein utilization. He reported that any time he consumed more than about the RDA, the excess was excreted in his urine.

For most lifters, he believes that about 10% to 20% of total caloric intake should come from protein, about 20-30% from fat, and about 60-70% from carbs. He reports that he has used this formula for every bodybuilder he ever trained.

There are a couple of threads on his web site where he responds to inquiries about his recommendations:

http://www.drdarden.com/readTopic.do?id=483712&pageNo=0

http://www.drdarden.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=C3AAF67E50147124CD42409F8E0E8E1E.hydra?id=678943

I have to admit I was a bit surprised. Not so much by the fat consumption recommendations, but about the protein and carbs. He discusses it more in his book, but that's the sum and substance of it.

 

[CaptainObvious]

This does not surprise me. Carbs are the fuel and so long as they're not of the empty variety carb consumption is a vital component. Protein being touted as the be all and end all of muscle growth is the result of mass marketing by the supplement industry. Muscle growth is stimulated by hard fucking work and that requires fuel, e.g. carbs.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

This does not surprise me. Carbs are the fuel and so long as they're not of the empty variety carb consumption is a vital component. Protein being touted as the be all and end all of muscle growth is the result of mass marketing by the supplement industry. Muscle growth is stimulated by hard fucking work and that requires fuel, e.g. carbs.

Dr. Darden, is that you?

That's pretty much what he said. I know that a lot of lifters worship protein; I was one of them for longer than I care to admit. But I was surprised by how little of it he recommends.

 

[Baron]

In his latest book, Killing Fat, Ellington updated the ratio to 25% protein, 25% fat, and 50% Carbs.

 

[CaptainObvious]

Dr. Darden, is that you?

That's pretty much what he said. I know that a lot of lifters worship protein; I was one of them for longer than I care to admit. But I was surprised by how little of it he recommends.

I too was a protein hawk, much of it through supplements because I found it nearly impossible to consume that much protein without taking in too many calories. Right now I run about 120-150 in protein and all of it from food, zero supplements.
I will also add that you were right on the money with your views on frequency, intensity and heavier weight with fewer reps. Since implementing this I have seen gains in size and strength which I thought were long gone, especially at my age. Thanks for sharing that with us. Works for me and that's good enough.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

In his latest book, Killing Fat, Ellington updated the ratio to 25% protein, 25% fat, and 50% Carbs.

I wonder what changed. Did he explain?

 

[Frederick Foresight]

I too was a protein hawk, much of it through supplements because I found it nearly impossible to consume that much protein without taking in too many calories. Right now I run about 120-150 in protein and all of it from food, zero supplements.
I will also add that you were right on the money with your views on frequency, intensity and heavier weight with fewer reps. Since implementing this I have seen gains in size and strength which I thought were long gone, especially at my age. Thanks for sharing that with us. Works for me and that's good enough.

Glad I could help. But I don't specifically recall suggesting heavier weights for fewer reps unless you were previously doing very high-rep sets...

 

[CaptainObvious]

Glad I could help. But I don't specifically recall suggesting heavier weights for fewer reps unless you were previously doing very high-rep sets...

Couple of years ago I remember us going back and forth a bit, and I do know I was a high rep guy with lighter weights. That was prior to my Afib issues, (summer 2016), which I still believe was brought on or at least magnified by my hard cardio, high rep type workouts. It took me until Jan. of 2017 to lower that type of workout, and then another year to start on something similar to your method, which I still think is more frequency than you do, but it's really only been since early spring that I really started adding weight, lowering reps and frequency. I only lift 3 days per week, down from 6 days a couple years ago, and even 5 a year ago.

 

[Baron]

I wonder what changed. Did he explain?

No. He basically just said "this is what you should do".

 

[Frederick Foresight]

Couple of years ago I remember us going back and forth a bit, and I do know I was a high rep guy with lighter weights. That was prior to my Afib issues, (summer 2016), which I still believe was brought on or at least magnified by my hard cardio, high rep type workouts. It took me until Jan. of 2017 to lower that type of workout, and then another year to start on something similar to your method, which I still think is more frequency than you do, but it's really only been since early spring that I really started adding weight, lowering reps and frequency. I only lift 3 days per week, down from 6 days a couple years ago, and even 5 a year ago.

Okay, just that since around the beginning of this year, I started slowing my reps down and increasing their number. So, for example, whereas I did weighted pull ups and dips for between 7 and 9 reps at "normal" cadence, I now do them unweighted for up to 15 reps over a set duration of about 1.5 minutes or so. My muscles feel no less worked, but my joints are better off.

Just curious, what is typically your present rep range and cadence?