Election 2024 Foreplay

[Nine_Ender]

Gonna say it again as I have said it before... indictments without convictions are meaningless so lets all calm down until trump is actually convicted of something meaningful.

that conviction of sexually harrassing the woman in the civil trial? meaningless in the election and to voters except to those who were never going to vote for him anyway... also a civil trial was word v. word and jury picked her. Could have been a coin toss.

Fuck your excuses for the man he's a train wreck on so many levels.

 

[UsualName]

That may be but the part of the discussion that I can see (missing parts due to people I have on ignore) And was/is about whether he could still run. If he is detained, obviously he cannot "run" if by "run" one means "be out campaigning." But if by "run" one means "continue to present himself and be eligible as a candidate for the President of the United States, then there is nothing that can stop him from doing that or being elected if the people vote for him, even if he is in a solitary confinement facility in Colorado. Nothing.

And if he is elected while in solitary confinement (I give theoretical example) he can be and will be president of the United States for four years unless he dies. resigns or is removed through impeachment. And of course if he were confined, he could just pardon himself as president after the election.

Also, no state can enact legislation to remove him from their ballot and all sorts of other foolish ideas floating around. Just as all those attempts to remove him or others who refused to show their tax returns were and are totally foolish and headed nowhere. The Constitution and the Constitution alone determines who is eligible to be president.

I don’t know that the president can pardon himself. In the DOJ’s standing opinion he cannot. They theorized under Nixon the proper course would be to invoke the 25th amendment for temporary transfer of power to the VP, have the VP issue the pardon, then the president resume office, pardoned. The theory is the fundamental rule of justice that one cannot be the judge in their own case.

https://www.justice.gov/d9/olc/opinions/1974/08/31/op-olc-supp-v001-p0370_0.pdf

 

[El OchoCinco]

Fuck your excuses for the man he's a train wreck on so many levels.

I am nto making excuses for trump (did you just meet me??)....just that everyone gets so overowrked on indictments.....lets get an actual conviction already.....its been 3 years of investigations.

 

[vanzandt]

I don’t know that the president can pardon himself. In the DOJ’s standing opinion he cannot. They theorized under Nixon the proper course would be to invoke the 25th amendment for temporary transfer of power to the VP, have the VP issue the pardon, then the president resume office, pardoned. The theory is the fundamental rule of justice that one cannot be the judge in their own case.

https://www.justice.gov/d9/olc/opinions/1974/08/31/op-olc-supp-v001-p0370_0.pdf

I betcha he'd sure as hell try.

 

[vanzandt]

Gonna say it again as I have said it before... indictments without convictions are meaningless so lets all calm down until trump is actually convicted of something meaningful.

that conviction of sexually harrassing the woman in the civil trial? meaningless in the election and to voters except to those who were never going to vote for him anyway... also a civil trial was word v. word and jury picked her. Could have been a coin toss.

Ocho are you a closet Trumpy now... making excuses and all?

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

I don’t know that the president can pardon himself. In the DOJ’s standing opinion he cannot. They theorized under Nixon the proper course would be to invoke the 25th amendment for temporary transfer of power to the VP, have the VP issue the pardon, then the president resume office, pardoned. The theory is the fundamental rule of justice that one cannot be the judge in their own case.

https://www.justice.gov/d9/olc/opinions/1974/08/31/op-olc-supp-v001-p0370_0.pdf

The Constitution governs. Not the DOJ opinions.

You are correct in when you say you do not know.

As legal theory and practice one can make a knee-jerk argument that one cannot be judge in their own case, and similarly not in the case of immediate family and so on and so forth.

In practice, presidents have and do pardon immediate family members, best buddies, people who have made contributions to the president in order to get pardons, etc and no one has been able to stop it because the power of the president is considered to be unlimited. All of those pardons are contrary to "the fundamental rule of justice" but there they are.

Bill Clinton pardoned his brother and go him out of prison. And he pardoned Marc Rich who was a fugitive and on the run but had been one of his major campaign contributors. Boom! About as biased as you can get and being a judge in his own interests. The Constitution does not necessarily tidy everything up in all matters, nor does that mean the DOJ and others can project on to it what the framers should or should not have done to fill in the blanks. An in-house opinion by the DOJ is just one more in-house opinion.

The analogies over to the judicial system are of limited value. The president is not acting as a judge when he grants pardons. He is exercising executive power that the constitution has given him.

 

[vanzandt]

The Constitution governs. Not the DOJ opinions.

You are correct in when you say you do not know.

As legal theory and practice one can make a knee-jerk argument that one cannot be judge in their own case, and similarly not in the case of immediate family and so on and so forth.

In practice, presidents have and do pardon immediate family members, best buddies, people who have made contributions to the president in order to get pardons, etc and no one has been able to stop it because the power of the president is considered to be unlimited. All of those pardons are contrary to "the fundamental rule of justice" but there they are.

Bill Clinton pardoned his brother and go him out of prison. And he pardoned Marc Rich who was a fugitive and on the run but had been one of his major campaign contributors. Boom! About as biased as you can get and being a judge in his own interests. The Constitution does not necessarily tidy everything up in all matters, nor does that mean the DOJ and others can project on to it what the framers should or should not have done to fill in the blanks. An in-house opinion by the DOJ is just one more in-house opinion.

The analogies over to the judicial system are of limited value. The president is not acting as a judge when he grants pardons. He is exercising executive power that the constitution has given him.

~case closed.

 

[UsualName]

~case closed.

Hardly. As stated, an opinion is an opinion. There is much doubt whether the president can pardon himself.

 

[Nine_Ender]

I am nto making excuses for trump (did you just meet me??)....just that everyone gets so overowrked on indictments.....lets get an actual conviction already.....its been 3 years of investigations.

The US is chock full of lawyers and a lot of "rich" people get away with stuff. For example, OJ was obviously guilty of murder but he got acquitted in criminal court. There is no doubt in my mind Trump's been guilty of sexual assault numerous times in his life. A married man who continually acts in this way has no moral compass and shouldn't be elected. His businesses frequently go under or are found to be acting on the fringes of the law ( likely not even that ). He hired all his close friends and family when he was President ( nepotism at it's finest ). None of his foreign policy as President worked out well ( see Taliban in power, no agreement with Iran , his buddy Putin is committing war crimes, trade deals contributed to supply chain issues and inflation ). And he refused to accept his election loss and egged on all sorts of people to commit acts of treason for him.

I have no idea why he's not charged yet but there is a long line of crooked American rich guys who got away with a lot of shit in recent decades. Including some guys Trump pardoned.

 

[Nine_Ender]

Ocho are you a closet Trumpy now... making excuses and all?

You'd think as the evidence just piles up more and more people would just let go of their fantasies of Trump being a suitable, capable leader. But you did elect George W. Bush twice and DeSantis is basically Trump Version 2 an actor portraying Trump.