EGO CHALLENGE (26 Sept 2003)

Nice job today.

The 2pts a day crowd is mainly a crowd of system traders. If you trade a 100% mechanical system (like I do), 2pts a day on average is very good.

Most discretionary traders find 2 pts a day a rather weak performance. Discretionary traders consider that every market move represents an opportunity to make a profit. So they are disappointed if they don't make many points a day.

But the problem is:
99.99% of traders will lose if they trade with discretion. Trading with discretion is much more difficult than trading under the protection of a "system". A good discretionary trader will make much more money than a good system trader but they are many more good system traders than good discretionary traders
 
Quote from Ditch:



Your question implied that you presumed it was possible AMT traded the 1 min. If i recall correct, you were always a strong advocate of longer timeframes. However, truly funny, that you, as the proclaimed seasoned trader, is first in line.
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I don't have a clue as to what method(s) either guy uses. I was not 'presuming' that he used a 1 minute chart...I was simply asking IF he did, or IF he used some other type of technique.

Not sure what you mean by 'longer timeframes'. I don't use intraday charts in any time frame. I trade watching a screen with stocks, indexes, etc. No charts at all. I do tend to hold my trades in order to give them time to work. But of course I'm always interested in how someone makes 6X the daily range. IF he did do it with a one minute chart (and again, I don't have a clue), then HIS experience would be considerably different than most.

Your last statement : "However, truly funny, that you, as the proclaimed seasoned trader, is first in line.", I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that....but I presume that you're taking a shot at me. I guess you don't think a trader who is 'seasoned' would be interested in someone else's technique. Or perhaps, you don't think I'm a 'seasoned' trader. Again, I don't know exactly what your meaning is. But rest assurred that I'm am interested in anyone who puts 48 points on the board, and I would assume anyone else in their right mind would be too.

OldTrader
 
Like OldTrader, I too, am very interested and it'd be great if AMT and acrary could post some basic info without going into exact methods from entry/exit (unless they want to ofcourse :D)

-FastTrader
 
Quote from OldTrader:



I don't have a clue as to what method(s) either guy uses. I was not 'presuming' that he used a 1 minute chart...I was simply asking IF he did, or IF he used some other type of technique.

Not sure what you mean by 'longer timeframes'. I don't use intraday charts in any time frame. I trade watching a screen with stocks, indexes, etc. No charts at all. I do tend to hold my trades in order to give them time to work. But of course I'm always interested in how someone makes 6X the daily range. IF he did do it with a one minute chart (and again, I don't have a clue), then HIS experience would be considerably different than most.

Your last statement : "However, truly funny, that you, as the proclaimed seasoned trader, is first in line.", I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that....but I presume that you're taking a shot at me. I guess you don't think a trader who is 'seasoned' would be interested in someone else's technique. Or perhaps, you don't think I'm a 'seasoned' trader. Again, I don't know exactly what your meaning is. But rest assurred that I'm am interested in anyone who puts 48 points on the board, and I would assume anyone else in their right mind would be too.

OldTrader
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A little elaboration on my last remark. I find it funny, that someone, who likes to profile himself as the 'eminence grise' of this site, considering the advice you've been dissing out all over the place over the course of time, is the first to ask a person, who has put on a solid performance, how he does that. I don't doubt that you trade and can live from your trading, but that doesn't make you the trading-guru, many think you are.
 
Quote from OldTrader:



That was quite a performance! My compliments.

As a matter of interest, in a general sort of way so you don't give the store away, what do you base your trades on? Are you watching one minute charts? Do you use indicators if you do? Or are you tape reading in some fashion?

Just interested in what enables a guy to make 6X the daily range. Fantastic!

OldTrader
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Just to get your view straightened out, and not as a negative criticism. A person detrmines how many times the H/L usually on a percontract basis. This is done by most people so all traders can compare themselves.

I personally us 3x as my value per contract.

It looks like you used 8 as H/L and divided it into 48 points to come up with your rating of the situation.

Others who do it as I suggested get a different answer. It comes out less than 2 for all the trades done.

You can see by now, also, ET is not a place where stuff can be posted on trades. The moderators or something limits posts so there is no chance the ET distrustful mentality of members can deal with posting what is happening.

Someday at some point any persons like those who tried could be could be just accepted for what what they do and post reliable synopses of their trades. Then people could review them peacefully comparing to charts and learn something.

This is a good thread and it will help "standardizing" what people are saying.

It is neat for a person to have a 35.5 point day as best and beat it with a 48 point day. The person trades 5 contracts as his effort and he scales. He made 15.437 per contract today and that can be converted to a value that relates to the potential the market offered today in trems of the H/L of 8.000.

at any rate you might want to consider doi9ng things in conventional comparisons ways. that way as time passes and you happen to run into many excellent well defined approaches,you will be better ale to understand their relative merits.
 
Quote from OldTrader:



I don't have a clue as to what method(s) either guy uses. I was not 'presuming' that he used a 1 minute chart...I was simply asking IF he did, or IF he used some other type of technique.

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Well, I'm not sure if he's trading 1min charts or what, but I think he's style of trading is, and I think I've heard this termed used this way, a "canonballer"; meaning he keeps adding as a position moves against him.

Of course this can look brilliant when it works, but equally disastrous when it fails. I mean, he was carrying 30 contracts on a losing position today, if (and I'm not saying he would have) he took, what appears to be, his customary 4pt stop on all 30 it wouldn't have looked too pretty.

Still, it's possible that AMT never has such days, so all the more power to him.
 
Quote from alfonso:




Well, I'm not sure if he's trading 1min charts or what, but I think he's style of trading is, and I think I've heard this termed used this way, a "canonballer"; meaning he keeps adding as a position moves against him.

Of course this can look brilliant when it works, but equally disastrous when it fails. I mean, he was carrying 30 contracts on a losing position today, if (and I'm not saying he would have) he took, what appears to be, his customary 4pt stop on all 30 it wouldn't have looked too pretty.

Still, it's possible that AMT never has such days, so all the more power to him.
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you may not have understood when he was long and when he was short
 
I don't think so. He marked his positions pretty clearly, and my post was in reference to the time he carried 30 contracts; a time in which he was clearly long.
 
Quote from Grob109:



Just to get your view straightened out, and not as a negative criticism. A person detrmines how many times the H/L usually on a percontract basis. This is done by most people so all traders can compare themselves.

I personally us 3x as my value per contract.

It looks like you used 8 as H/L and divided it into 48 points to come up with your rating of the situation.

Others who do it as I suggested get a different answer. It comes out less than 2 for all the trades done.
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OK, always appreciate getting myself straightened out as you say. But here's how he himself put it: "I did + 48 points today per 5 ES contracts ($250.00 X 48 points)."

Note he multiplies 48 points times the value per point of 5 contracts, which is $250. The implication being that he made a total of 48 points per 5 contract unit he traded. That means he made $12000.

Now, if I take the daily range of let's say 8 points, and multiply that by 5 contracts to make it comparable, what I get is $2000.

So the way I see this is it 6X, not 2X as you said.

Now admittedly, I did not go through his trades. Perhaps you did. Or perhaps he intended his results differently than I understood them. What am I missing here?

OldTrader
 
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