Educators who Have Zero proof they even trade (99%) - wtf?

[deaddog]

My point in starting this thread is:

+ the entire trading education industry is largely a farce, populated by incapable posers/marketers who don't even trade much, if at all Blind leading the blind.

+ retail traders should look for PnL proof that their educator actually trades. That should be obvious.

+ dishonest 'educators' make phony performance claims (and YouTube videos) vs showing broker PnL screencaps from recent trades they are in. Thankfully the FTC is taking action with dishonest actors.

+ educators don't need to be wall street millionaire traders, but they at least should actually trade live accounts

+ I've never before seen an industry where the public spends money on training from vendors with zero PnL proof. Traders should vet more carefully imho.

Thoughts on those specific points?

You realize you are part of the trading education industry? Are you part of the problem? Do you recommend that you prospective customer read your disclaimer?

Aside from joining TradeMastery, how would you choose an education service?

I would think that aside from word of mouth, google would be the next thing I would try.

I find the proof you offer lacking in context. It's fine to have winning trades and $1000 days but without knowing account size or at least some kind of percentage returns a consumer should be suspicious.

As you are trading real money in real time, why don't you reveal your account size so your customers can see how you manage risk and position size. Realizing you are trading to teach you could break it into different accounts for different strategies, swing vs day trading etc.

I would hope customers are more concerned with results than whether the teacher is a millionaire.

 

[southall]

I have programmed by myself about 3 algos and currently testing. I also have 1 algo running now on the MNQ, I put $5000 on it and currently up $2000. You can see broker statements below.

Never post statements showing open profits, it is bad luck

Like this sell off in MNQ today

 

[SimpleMeLike]

Never post statements showing open profits, it is bad luck

Like this sell off in MNQ today

Hello southall,

I create my own luck. I do not care and was completely unaware about the "sell off" in MNQ today, that is my algo job to make the decision on what to do about a "sell off". I do not recall writing/coding about a "sell off" logic in my algo. Also, what does "sell off" mean? Can you please quantify "sell off"?

 

[Laissez Faire]

Morning Laissez Faire,

Yes, that is correct, I have studied him for 2 years and my SIM account is about -$3400 now. I am not making any money from studying Brooks so far and I do not know any one either who is. You can easily go to his public forum and search the forum threads for "profitable", noone says they trade for a living. See for yourself below. A few says they are in SIM or struggling or almost there, blah blah blah blah. A few say study 10,000 hours, blah blah blah blah. A few journals have been started but die out in a few months. I never saw one broker statement on there. There is one guy who has been at it for about 7 years man, and still in sim with the MES contract. oh well.

NOW, does this means there are some profitable price action students from his teaching out there. Maybe so, I do not know.

Maybe I lose cause I do not work hard enough, not following direction, not putting in enough time, not back testing enough, blah blahh blah blah blah. Who knows. But the fact remains, I have not seen one 1-3 years broker statements from any Al Brook student online or his forum or from his teaching.

The good thing about my case is I only lost time and about $400 for the course. Learned alot too.

Interesting. And not surprising.

I personally have migrated to the algorithmic trading systems style trading approach and would like to get away from discretionary trading (no offense to discretionary traders). This way I follow the ray dalio approach, I know I am right, because I properly back tested my trading idea for complete unchallenged robust Edge. I have programmed by myself about 3 algos and currently testing. I also have 1 algo running now on the MNQ, I put $5000 on it and currently up $2000. You can see broker statements below. This is why I no longer buy the trading courses cause noone show broker statement like I just did, yet they want my money. Sorry, not falling for scammers.

Humbly, my view is that you are not going to find anyone who will hold your hand all the way to a profitable trading strategy, whether that's discretionary trading or systematic trading. The exception would be if you got a job in the industry. I'm talking about the lone retail trader shopping online for advice.

At best - an educator can inspire and give you ideas to backtest and check for yourself. That's the only way to learn and make progress.

If you do that long enough there's a good chance you'll arrive at a good understanding of how the market moves and a method to exploit that. But at the end of the day there's no guarantees in this game and at the end of the day you're alone.

Good luck on your algorithmic approach and feel free to keep us posted.

 

[southall]

Hello southall,

I create my own luck. I do not care and was completely unaware about the "sell off" in MNQ today, that is my algo job to make the decision on what to do about a "sell off". I do not recall writing/coding about a "sell off" logic in my algo. Also, what does "sell off" mean? Can you please quantify "sell off"?

Thats is a very 'Ed Seykota' type of answer. I think you will make a very good algo trader..
Can I ask how the long your average algo trade lasts. How many days? ie. is it a day/swing/ long term trading system?

 

[newwurldmn]

You realize you are part of the trading education industry? Are you part of the problem? Do you recommend that you prospective customer read your disclaimer?

Aside from joining TradeMastery, how would you choose an education service?

I would think that aside from word of mouth, google would be the next thing I would try.

I find the proof you offer lacking in context. It's fine to have winning trades and $1000 days but without knowing account size or at least some kind of percentage returns a consumer should be suspicious.

As you are trading real money in real time, why don't you reveal your account size so your customers can see how you manage risk and position size. Realizing you are trading to teach you could break it into different accounts for different strategies, swing vs day trading etc.

I would hope customers are more concerned with results than whether the teacher is a millionaire.

I'll tell you how i would select a trading education service:
1. They are offering knowledge in a market and/or risk factor I want to learn.
2. They have extensive experience on the buyside and/or on the sellside with that market or riskfactor.
3. They have an ability to communicate and jives with my ability to listen.

PNL isn't a factor. Success and failure in portfolio management can be due to a multitude of reasons. It's incumbent on me to develop profitable trading strategies from the knowledge and experiences they pass down to me.

So who fits the bill on this site?
GAT
bone
... that's it.

Anyone who tries to convince you they are competent because of track record or because they trade real money is attempting to deflect from the quality of their content.

 

[ChipShotTrader]

Hello trend2009,

I am student of Al Brooks for 2 years and no winning year/month and still not good enough. I am not being negative on him just telling the truth. My other friend studying him 5 years and no money made either. In addition, I know about 3 others who has stop trading all together from this guy teaching cause the losses piled on them and they loss confidence and just gave up from the losing. His teaching is not good. I do not listen to his video course anymore.

And I was disappointed in SIM trades here in video below. He talk and sell all these books and course and all this scalping stuff and does not even trade real money. I am not buying any more discretionary trading books or videos courses. And his chat room is $99 per month and he never show his account balance for trading. He can keep his trading setups or edge, just give trader some confidence in his results.

I do not give damn what anyone says here at ET, if you can not trade real money and show your results for 1 year in real time, STOP requesting money/time/energy/effort from people to teach and sell them courses.

If you want to teach and not trade real money, teach for FREE.

So many innocent traders are getting scammed in this trading industry from this crap. It is damn shame.

Incredible. Very painful to watch, as there is NO FUCKING WAY this guy is trading 15-second bars. He is a scammer for sure, and the even scarier part is that he has 57,000 Subscribers on YouTube, and 20,000 Views on this video alone.

It is brutal out there. Thanks for sharing your experience, and stay away from this scum.

He is like a horror movie, and he even looks like this dude:

 

[SimpleMeLike]

You realize you are part of the trading education industry? Are you part of the problem? Do you recommend that you prospective customer read your disclaimer?

Aside from joining TradeMastery, how would you choose an education service?

I would think that aside from word of mouth, google would be the next thing I would try.

I find the proof you offer lacking in context. It's fine to have winning trades and $1000 days but without knowing account size or at least some kind of percentage returns a consumer should be suspicious.

As you are trading real money in real time, why don't you reveal your account size so your customers can see how you manage risk and position size. Realizing you are trading to teach you could break it into different accounts for different strategies, swing vs day trading etc.

I would hope customers are more concerned with results than whether the teacher is a millionaire.

You are right deaddog, alot of customers/traders do not know the right questions to ask. It is about risk-adjusted returns, not just returns. The trading sellers/vendors I talked to do not even give their drawdown or trading performance.

 

[trend2009]

if al Brooks did not make money, how did he feed his family? Given he was a medical doctor before he became a full trader, so he must have earned some income somewhere before he wrote books and charged audience. I guess he was a successful trader, and his method stopped working anymore or he became too old to day trade, so he turned himself into a teacher

 

[ChipShotTrader]

Have any of you heard of Maslo's hierarchy of needs?

Trading is dull and is rewarding in far fewer ways than helping someone else.

But it always comes back to "if he can trade, why would he teach" - or "if he wants to make more money, he can trade more size".

I spoke to a prop trader who is just starting a sideline business. He has an idea that he thinks will be big and has someone on board to create the products. Relative to trading, he is really, really enjoying this new thing. It's new, he deals with people, it's not making any money but it's more interesting.

At some point, I fully expect the trading to stop. It is kind of a dull activity. When presented with 2 options - and it'll come to that if the business gains traction - I expect the business will win, even though at that point, it will not be anywhere near his trading income.

The idea that this is only about 1 aspect of work - the remuneration - is to ignore many of our motivations.

I mean - it's like saying - why be a nurse, when you could do something that pays better?

It sounds to me like your friend simply needs to take a break, like a Sabbatical. I have done that, several times.

I have been trading professionally, full-time, since September 1998. Although I have simplified my trading to futures, and spend a lot less time in front of the screens, I would hardly refer to trading as "dull". It's still very much interesting to me (which is rewarding in itself), and I will probably trade until I die. I think your prop trader friend can find other outlets that are new, where he can deal with people, like Yoga class, or even CrossFit. He can become an instructor (and teach for free). Why not even got to nursing school, become a paramedic, or a volunteer firefighter?

The remuneration is the reward for the effort, just one aspect of the long process.

On a different note, whenever I hear someone say "money doesn't buy happiness", they usually don't have any. Want to quickly spot a liar? The person who says "money doesn't buy happiness".

It buys freedom, thus happiness...