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TRUE;
he did better with his private money+ that'$ why i mention his book as a buy, not to run a hedge fund /but learn a little more.
IBD books help more.......................................................................
Educators who Have Zero proof they even trade (99%) - wtf?
- Thread starter KCalhoun
- Start date
TRUE;
he did better with his private money+ that'$ why i mention his book as a buy, not to run a hedge fund /but learn a little more.
IBD books help more.......................................................................
What's to gain from them showing proof? If they are busy making money proving it to random people on ET does what for them? Even if they showed proof noone would believe it. The rabbit hole would just get deeper and deeper. Pointless.
As unfortunate as this may be this does not prove that the teachings of Brooks do not work. It could very well be that you as well as the others you've mentioned have not put in the correct work or just don't have the natural ability to achieve what is being taught.
There are many that swear they traded unprofitably for years before Brooks teachings got them to break even or better.
Everybody cant be right. People like to talk shit yet cannot prove whether something does or does not work.
At best evidence is neutral until someone can prove otherwise.
Hello Relentless,
You right and have a valid point/argument. I can not debate that. Good point.
Thanks
Proof can have many forms. I did not say anyone needed to post a broker statement.
I can state it differently: I haven't seen anything which indicates that someone is making serious $$$ from Al Brooks' teachings alone.
And that includes Al (except for what he earns by selling shovels).
Unfortunate indeed and very convenient, too. The teacher is never at fault. It's always the student who didn't study in the correct way or put in the necessary work...
This isn't exclusive of Brooks, but applies to all educators. A newbie is easily impressed and don't have the experience to discriminate. It's SO easy to think you're actually progressing and learning something valuable when maybe you're not...
Who are these many...?
I know for example padutrader have claimed to have finally made it after a lifetime of studies and gives Brooks credit. Then, it's revealed he's actually not making any $$$ at all.
I also believe @SimpleMeLike have spoken warmly about Brooks in the past, but now states that he's not making any $$$ from his teachings. That's why I thanked him for his refreshing honesty.
Have any of you heard of Maslo's hierarchy of needs?
Trading is dull and is rewarding in far fewer ways than helping someone else.
But it always comes back to "if he can trade, why would he teach" - or "if he wants to make more money, he can trade more size".
I spoke to a prop trader who is just starting a sideline business. He has an idea that he thinks will be big and has someone on board to create the products. Relative to trading, he is really, really enjoying this new thing. It's new, he deals with people, it's not making any money but it's more interesting.
At some point, I fully expect the trading to stop. It is kind of a dull activity. When presented with 2 options - and it'll come to that if the business gains traction - I expect the business will win, even though at that point, it will not be anywhere near his trading income.
The idea that this is only about 1 aspect of work - the remuneration - is to ignore many of our motivations.
I mean - it's like saying - why be a nurse, when you could do something that pays better?
Trading is dull and is rewarding in far fewer ways than helping someone else.
But it always comes back to "if he can trade, why would he teach" - or "if he wants to make more money, he can trade more size".
I spoke to a prop trader who is just starting a sideline business. He has an idea that he thinks will be big and has someone on board to create the products. Relative to trading, he is really, really enjoying this new thing. It's new, he deals with people, it's not making any money but it's more interesting.
At some point, I fully expect the trading to stop. It is kind of a dull activity. When presented with 2 options - and it'll come to that if the business gains traction - I expect the business will win, even though at that point, it will not be anywhere near his trading income.
The idea that this is only about 1 aspect of work - the remuneration - is to ignore many of our motivations.
I mean - it's like saying - why be a nurse, when you could do something that pays better?
My point in starting this thread is:
+ the entire trading education industry is largely a farce, populated by incapable posers/marketers who don't even trade much, if at all Blind leading the blind.
+ retail traders should look for PnL proof that their educator actually trades. That should be obvious.
+ dishonest 'educators' make phony performance claims (and YouTube videos) vs showing broker PnL screencaps from recent trades they are in. Thankfully the FTC is taking action with dishonest actors.
+ educators don't need to be wall street millionaire traders, but they at least should actually trade live accounts
+ I've never before seen an industry where the public spends money on training from vendors with zero PnL proof. Traders should vet more carefully imho.
Thoughts on those specific points?
And let's not mention individuals by name, this is an industry-wide issue.
Why on earth would you buy courses or chatroom subscriptions from strangers on the internet who fail a simple 'are you a real trader, show proof ' test? C'mon.
+ the entire trading education industry is largely a farce, populated by incapable posers/marketers who don't even trade much, if at all Blind leading the blind.
+ retail traders should look for PnL proof that their educator actually trades. That should be obvious.
+ dishonest 'educators' make phony performance claims (and YouTube videos) vs showing broker PnL screencaps from recent trades they are in. Thankfully the FTC is taking action with dishonest actors.
+ educators don't need to be wall street millionaire traders, but they at least should actually trade live accounts
+ I've never before seen an industry where the public spends money on training from vendors with zero PnL proof. Traders should vet more carefully imho.
Thoughts on those specific points?
And let's not mention individuals by name, this is an industry-wide issue.
Why on earth would you buy courses or chatroom subscriptions from strangers on the internet who fail a simple 'are you a real trader, show proof ' test? C'mon.
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The trading industry is insane.
Not sure how well known this is but I started and ran a company for Fujitsu for 14 years and I was a regional director before that.
Consultants and Educators in other industries are often ex-practitioners. They get experience and expertize way above people new to the industry and they become well paid consultants. BUT - they no longer practice what they preach. They have gone past that and are forging a new career.
To me - there is nothing wrong with an ex-trader doing education. It's not as if they are going to simply forget it or that the markets change so much each year their knowledge has no value.
In your case - you provide results and it's a tool you use to market your services. I see nothing wrong with that either - kudos to you for doing it. It's a differentiator - but it's not mandatory IMO.
The industry is a farce for a couple of reasons
- People don't want to work hard, so they pay money to companies making outlandish claims of massive returns for little effort. The diet, real estate, bodybuilding education industries are the same.
- There is a disconnect between pro and retail trading worlds - they don't overlap much, so people don't even know what success looks like
- The govt is useless. FTC and the like are always going to be behind the curve. These are govt employees - go to the DMV, those are the same kinda people running FTC etc.
- There is no trading specific regulation for educators. And consumer law is inadequate because how can you prove you were sold crap techniques?
But people get taught in prop. They need to be taught in retail.
I see no reason an educator needs to be still trading. They DO need to be experts and experts in techniques that are proven with an teaching approach that needs to be proven.
I think ex-practitioners are just fine.
Very cool. Kudos to you.
There's 2 skills you need to teach trading - trading skills and teaching skills.
On your side - did you enjoy the teaching - watching people grow and profit from your teaching? What I see in a number of traders is they don't initially intend to stop trading but the teaching is more rewarding from a non-financial perspective.
I'd love to hear why you stopped. Mind you - teaching and watching them do the exact opposite is frustrating!
Agreed - I often ask people "what's your goal" and sometimes I get stuff back like "I'd like to be at the point I can break even" - that's so pointless. They are timid and beaten up by trading already. Timid about why they are there.
There has to be a point to doing this. There's a lot of nonsense floating about saying you need to love trading and NOT be in it for the money. For those - I suggest charity work. It is too big a challenge to stick with through the dark times if the outcome is just "love trading".
But - I think the idea that "At some point a good trader should produce a sufficient income where he doesn’t have to pander some trading related product to the public" - because people tend to do stuff they enjoy. I know plenty of traders that are well past enjoying it.
It's not just a numbers game in my opinion.
True - but you just also explained why a lot is pointless without 3rd party audit or some sort of organisation that assesses traders. In my view - 2 years as a higher frequency day trader is plenty.
That's different perspectives on how to validate a trader - and the moment you publish anything - people will be on your back about why it proves nothing. Based on their perspectives.
So - I think there needs to be an accreditation organisation to really fix this.
Morning Laissez Faire,Proof can have many forms. I did not say anyone needed to post a broker statement.
I can state it differently: I haven't seen anything which indicates that someone is making serious $$$ from Al Brooks' teachings alone.
And that includes Al (except for what he earns by selling shovels).
Unfortunate indeed and very convenient, too. The teacher is never at fault. It's always the student who didn't study in the correct way or put in the necessary work...
This isn't exclusive of Brooks, but applies to all educators. A newbie is easily impressed and don't have the experience to discriminate. It's SO easy to think you're actually progressing and learning something valuable when maybe you're not...
Who are these many...?
I know for example padutrader have claimed to have finally made it after a lifetime of studies and gives Brooks credit. Then, it's revealed he's actually not making any $$$ at all.
I also believe @SimpleMeLike have spoken warmly about Brooks in the past, but now states that he's not making any $$$ from his teachings. That's why I thanked him for his refreshing honesty.
Yes, that is correct, I have studied him for 2 years and my SIM account is about -$3400 now. I am not making any money from studying Brooks so far and I do not know any one either who is. You can easily go to his public forum and search the forum threads for "profitable", noone says they trade for a living. See for yourself below. A few says they are in SIM or struggling or almost there, blah blah blah blah. A few say study 10,000 hours, blah blah blah blah. A few journals have been started but die out in a few months. I never saw one broker statement on there. There is one guy who has been at it for about 7 years man, and still in sim with the MES contract. oh well.
NOW, does this means there are some profitable price action students from his teaching out there. Maybe so, I do not know.
Maybe I lose cause I do not work hard enough, not following direction, not putting in enough time, not back testing enough, blah blahh blah blah blah. Who knows. But the fact remains, I have not seen one 1-3 years broker statements from any Al Brook student online or his forum or from his teaching.
The good thing about my case is I only lost time and about $400 for the course. Learned alot too.
I personally have migrated to the algorithmic trading systems style trading approach and would like to get away from discretionary trading (no offense to discretionary traders). This way I follow the ray dalio approach, I know I am right, because I properly back tested my trading idea for complete unchallenged robust Edge. I have programmed by myself about 3 algos and currently testing. I also have 1 algo running now on the MNQ, I put $5000 on it and currently up $2000. You can see broker statements below. This is why I no longer buy the trading courses cause noone show broker statement like I just did, yet they want my money. Sorry, not falling for scammers.
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