Education Resources? Train Someone To Trade!

Quote from metoo:

I probably have thirty investing in the market books. As I reflect back upon those books I've realized how similar most of them are and consistently say basically the same thing.
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First: throw away all your thirty something investment books. Give them away to the next generation of sheeps. No... actually... burn them. They don't do nobody no good. You have decided to be a trader. You said so. And Day Trading. The most difficult form of trading in fact. No investment books. No dummy-this, dummy-that. They really are for dummies. No Motley Fools. No Buffett this and that. No "The Best Mutual Funds To Buy in 2008" (if there is such a thing).

And shut off that CNBC channel.


Quote from metoo:

..... I have successfully accomplished every goal I have ever aspired too in my life......
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Second: Check this statement in a shoebox. This is your baggage. This is a trace of your "ego". I have run a success business this and that. I got a degree from the most prestigeous institution this and that. I have achieved the award of this and that... Who cares? If you are so good... why are you starting to trade (hoping to make a living) now? Why not stay a scholar, a professor, a ABCDEFG whatever title people give themselves these days? Why bother with trading?

FYI: I had two master degrees too. 20 years of corporate life that led me nowhere. I can calculate the wage I would earn, to the exact penny, on the date I retire - provided if they don't lay me off. With trading... there are POSSIBILITIES. Possibilities that one day you can own your private jets, drive a Lamborghini, live in a penhouse and ask Donald Trump or Larry Ellison to shine your shoes. Earning a wage, there is only IMPOSSIBILITY.

Start from zero. Start with a state of mind where you don't know anything (about trading). Observe, absorb, do your own work to transform information into your own knowledge.



Beginners: best to follow the trend. Day trading or not. ID a trend... then buy on the dips (uptrend) and sell on rallies (downtrend).

Intermediates: then you can play trend and play range... do the double top, double bottom kind of things.

Advanced: then you can fade bubbles and scoop panic dumpings, and be able to "go with the flow" to flip your positions at will.
 
Quote from metoo:

JScott: I will be looking at the puretick system next week. I do have my reservations however. With the volume informaton that is out there today I don't really see the benifit at this point but maybe I'll at least learn something. Are there any others traders out there who can speak positively for this system? If something is really good I beleive many will have great things to say about it......
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Are you really sure about following Puretick? I have no direct experience with them, but only observed posting flames between Alex and the rest of the world. I don't have any judgment on the actual working or not-working. But do you really want to follow an arrogant, foul-mouthed, always-insulting-others instructor as a lead? Wouldn't that at least cast some doubts on his own integrity?
 
Quote from Bolimomo:

First: throw away all your thirty something investment books. Give them away to the next generationYou have of sheeps. No... actually... burn them.




u made 2 references to previous accomplishments, try high school basketball star, or sharpshooter champ , both these accolades would be exploited at the carnival, except exploitation and become a champ at avoiding it
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Quote from ammo:

Quote from Bolimomo:

First: throw away all your thirty something investment books. Give them away to the next generationYou have of sheeps. No... actually... burn them.




u made 2 references to previous accomplishments, try high school basketball star, or sharpshooter champ , both these accolades would be exploited at the carnival, except exploitation and become a champ at avoiding it
More...

Adapt or die.

Regards

Johno
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Lots of good advise in this thread. I will try to add to it and hopefully someone will gain from that.

1. I humbly disagree that books should not be read about trading. I would very much agree that most of them are not worth the paper they are written on but that doesnt mean all are bad. I have a list on my blog of books that I think are must reads and if you want the list I will PM you as to not spam the thread. Some include these.

market wizards both I and II

Trader Vic – Methods of a Wall Street Master

New market Timing Techniques: Innovative Studies in Market Rhythm & Price Exhaustion

Reading a few behavior economics books will do you a lot of good in understanding why you will do what you do when trading (taking risks, allowing losses to run and cutting your winners short etc...)

Trading is like a job that is in sales. you get paid for performance. If you dont make the sale you dont get paid and in trading if you dont make the correct decisions you dont get paid either. Heres the tough part for most people, the correct decision that you need to make may NOT be the correct decision for any given trade. What this means is that your paid for the SUM of your decisions in a year and worrying about any one given trade is a waste of time and money.

Trading doesnt allow you to get out of working and effort and still make money. Trading for most successful traders is a long day (and nights) and usually means working over a lot of weekends. Those that don't put in huge amounts of effort and are totally driven will never really make it and if they do happen to make any real money they end up giving it back (think dot com bust where lots of people confused a bull market for brains)

Also, much of the advise you get from people will be wrong(in general about trading not directed at the previous posts in the thread). I don't think in most cases people are trying to give bad advise. For whatever reason (intentional or by chance) the markets 'fool most of the people most of the time' and I would add that the markets fool everyone from time to time so never leave yourself without an exit path.

For some paper trading can be a real help and for others worthless. Those that can gain value will tell you to do it and those that have not will say never do it. I suggest trying it and see for yourself. Dont expect as good of results but I think most would agree that if you cant make money paper trading(and giving it your best) your not going to make money with your actual money on the line. (BTW for me it was of no value)

regardless of when you start trading again trade SMALL very small, micro small. SMALL SMALL SMALL and stay that way. stay very small for a very long time until its BORING. trading should be boring if done correctly. If you want a thrill go to vegas where you get free drinks. On wall st if you lose money they laugh in your face and wont give you a buffet pass. when trading if you feel the need for action than you just went from doing your job to having fun. At that point it would be better to open an online poker account and play 10 cent poker. will be a lot cheaper.

Have written rules of entry and exit. have those rules made up from backtesting in many different time periods. If you cant write down the rules in the calm of the night so that they are clear and easy to follow you will get eaten alive trying to figure out what to do in the middle of the battle while in a trade. I consider myself a full time backtester of strategies and I trade once in a while. Even after all my hours of screen time I usually can not tell you with any degree of confidence which way the price will go from any given price. This is why I (try) to follow my rules that are written down and not go off the path. When I do start trading by the seat of my pants is when I find myself in the most trouble in terms of money.

Read all you can about others failures. try to spend time avoiding those landmines that seem to get so many.

Make a journal (public or private either is fine as long as its honest) so that you can go back and read about what you did and why you did it. You will be able to see areas that your making progress with and areas that keep tripping you up and where you need to focus on.

theres a lot more but its getting late and this should keep you busy for a while.

Best of luck to you and if any of this is helpful stop by my journal and give me a 'hello'

Respectfully,

Robert
 
Quote from Robert Weinstein:

Lots of good advise in this thread. I will try to add to it and hopefully someone will gain from that.

1. I humbly disagree that books should not be read about trading. I would very much agree that most of them are not worth the paper they are written on but that doesnt mean all are bad. I have a list on my blog of books that I think are must reads and if you want the list I will PM you as to not spam the thread. Some include these.

market wizards both I and II

Trader Vic – Methods of a Wall Street Master

New market Timing Techniques: Innovative Studies in Market Rhythm & Price Exhaustion
More...

Sorry Robert: I agree to agree with you.

If you read my note again. I said: Metoo said he/she has 30 some INVESTMENT books. To me there are big differences between INVESTMENT books and TRADING books. INVESTMENT books would be like those "Suze Orman" telling you make your own coffee at home instead of buying from Starbucks and you will have $100 a month to invest in Microsoft stock over the next 10 years, or the "100 best stocks to own in 2009", or "Investment Books for Dummies" (diversify: buy 100 shares of stocks, 100 shares of municipal bonds, 100 share of mutual fund, blah blah blah) , or the "Beardstown Ladies Investment Club" (if we can do it you can too) kind of books.

Trading books I do recommend reading. Some are useful, some are not. But adapt what one likes and make it one's own.

What you have cited seem to be all trading books. And I don't know how one would learn how to Day Trade by reading INVESTMENT books.
 
Quote from Bolimomo:

Sorry Robert: I agree to agree with you.

If you read my note again. I said: Metoo said he/she has 30 some INVESTMENT books. To me there are big differences between INVESTMENT books and TRADING books.
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Hello Bolimomo,

Yes and I stand corrected. right you are. As the terms are so often used as the same "Investment books/ trading books" I did not separate the two

Respectfully,

Robert
 
Quote from Bolimomo

Second: Check this statement in a shoebox. This is your baggage. This is a trace of your "ego". I have run a success business this and that. I got a degree from the most prestigeous institution this and that. I have achieved the award of this and that... Who cares? If you are so good... why are you starting to trade (hoping to make a living) now? Why not stay a scholar, a professor, a ABCDEFG whatever title people give themselves these days? Why bother with trading?

FYI: I had two master degrees too. 20 years of corporate life that led me nowhere. I can calculate the wage I would earn, to the exact penny, on the date I retire - provided if they don't lay me off. With trading... there are POSSIBILITIES. Possibilities that one day you can own your private jets, drive a Lamborghini, live in a penhouse and ask Donald Trump or Larry Ellison to shine your shoes. Earning a wage, there is only IMPOSSIBILITY.

Bolimomo :


Your supposition regarding my "ego" seems out of context and unwarranted. Without walking in some else's shoes you can't possibly know the context of their statements. You assume I was bragging when in fact I was merely implying that I am not an idiot. In other words my past accomplishments only lend evidence of my abilities to maintain the stamina, drive and fortitude to be a successful in trader.

Since you brought up the subject and seem concerned though I was on my way to achieving a successful real estate career. For your information I received awards and had my picture in the paper as a top producer but then a life altering experience took place.

My wife and I lost a nine year old son. It was devastating. It took the wind out of my sail so to speak. Medical problems and depression followed. It literally took years to gain back my passion for life and it's meaning. I was not the same person. While I still enjoy being around people I no longer had the drive to be with prospective clients.

So trading for me has been a life long ambition. I can't explain the attraction but it's there. I did'nt even know that a person could make the kind of money that many speak of here.

I now look forward to getting out of bed in the morning. My life again has meaning and purpose. I feel alive again. I work at this many times sixteen hours a day and usually on weekends.

I did not mean to imply that I wanted a hand out, just a hand, some guidance and direction. Yes, I would love to become associated with someone to watch and learn as they trade as it could potentially lesson the learning curve but I also understand why someone would be afraid I would use their trading concepts. Would'nt every newbie desire to shorten their learning curve?

I sort of feel sorry for you Sir that you could be so judgemental but you see I used to be somewhat like you in this area. I used to be judgemetal also. I think my experience has made me stronger, wiser and having more compassion for others now. One of my favorite sayings is " It's amazing how much justice we want when someone else screws up compared to how much grace we want when we screw up". No hard feelings here, Sir!

I go in peace!
Good Trading to You!
metoo
 
metoo:

I am profoundly sorry for my statements. Please accept my apology. And I am sorry for your family situation.

You are right: I have not been helpful. I should have worded them differently. I will be very careful in the future.

What I wanted to say is this: I have seen many posters coming in to this forum and others saying something like: I have done skydiving, rockclimbing, have many degrees, successfully climbed the corporate ladder and became a XXXXX, have overcome this and that challenges. I can do this! (Referring to trading and make money). Implying this is a piece of cake.

Being self-confident is good. But I think they might be in for a surprise to realize how difficult trading is. Having past successes in many life areas (education, work, family, adventure) are not necessarily assets for the learning curve in trading.

But... everybody is different. There probably are someone who can learn trading in 2 days and be successful from day one.


My opinion on the investing books is about the same. I think investing is very different from trading. I think if you want to be good at day trading, or trading in general, most investing types of books may not help you.


I wish you good luck. And I will try to be more useful in the future.


- Boli
 
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