Edge Trading.......does not work

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Quote from vegasoul:

fractals is NOT a trading term, it's a mathematical desciption.

and I think both you and I don't have any idea what it really means, especailly when you have a economic or whatever engineering background.

stop using words you don't understand to make yourself sound sophisticated. edge trading? you have a clue...man..

most ppl here read elder , so stop using authority to back up your argument.
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Hey man, I have no beef with you. Fractal is another word for timeframe in my book.

If you read Elder as you state, I would have thought that you would know I meant timeframe. Sorry that you have beef with using fractal instead of timeframe.

I really hope you dont show this much animosity to everyone who wants to get a discussion going.

I probably should not have named the thread what I did. It would have been better probably to call it "3 timeframe trading". The point of the thread was using 3 fractals(timeframes). You get your signal for an entry on the middle fractal(timeframe), anticipate your entry on the faster fractal(timeframe), and size up the probablility of the trade on the longer fractal(timeframe).

As this thread is really geting nowhere, I have sent an pm to the moderator to delete it.

sincerely,

JC
 
...I am in the middle of studying and testing Jack's methods to see if they can enhance my mechanical system trading (yes, I am one of those pitiful "edge" traders). If you could take the time to post what YOU think Jack's method is, I am sure that many here would appreciate it. Something simple, like the nine things to check before the opening and how to interpret them, how to recognize when synchronization is achieved, how to recognize that a rocket has started (that it's not just the beginning of a congestion), how to tell that a failure to traverse is actually the beginning of the next trend, how to interpret the MACD, how to interpret the Stochastic, the INDU/YM stretch, the odds on FBP/FTP breakouts, etc. If you can state this, then perhaps your critics here will be confounded. Perhaps if you have a cheat sheet you use for trading you could just attach that. I ask because some individual elements of the method backtest with large negative expectancy. Obviously it must be precticed as a whole, and I don't get it. Thanks.
 
what do you mean when you say 'edge'? i read your post and either you have a different meaning for 'edge' or you haven't got a clue as to what you are doing. if you DO mean trading with a systemized approach (or one that is well qualified in terms of expectancy), then you wouldn't be talking like this. but maybe you mean something else? having an 'edge' is not mysterious or anything, it can be well documented and well defined. you know whether you have one or not simply by looking at #'s.

:D

Quote from nwbprop:

I just wanted to share my revelation as a former edge trader. I use to be an edge trader that used the 5 min fractal on ES for my edge. Sometimes it would work and sometimes it would not. I traded for a good 6 months before coming to the realization that edge trading was not the way to go.

I was reading Trading for a Living by Dr. Alexander Elder. The part in the book that hit me like a bolt of lightning was his triple screen trading method. It uses the market as a migrating entity.

What I was lacking in my edge was using 1 fractal up. While I would get the same setup on my 5 min, the higher fractal would be in different setups. This has allowed me to see when I took my edge, that it had a higher probablilty of failing and i would wash before losing money. It has also allowed me to ride Big trends. When i enter my setup on the 5 minute and it shows(migrates) a big trend on the longer timeframe, i dont worry about the give and take of price as I know their is more momentum in the longer timeframe that will push the price again toward "more" profit.

I am sure their are a lot of people who have had this experience but I thought I would share it anyway.

JC
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Quote from hypostomus:

...I am in the middle of studying and testing Jack's methods to see if they can enhance my mechanical system trading (yes, I am one of those pitiful "edge" traders). If you could take the time to post what YOU think Jack's method is, I am sure that many here would appreciate it. Something simple, like the nine things to check before the opening and how to interpret them, how to recognize when synchronization is achieved, how to recognize that a rocket has started (that it's not just the beginning of a congestion), how to tell that a failure to traverse is actually the beginning of the next trend, how to interpret the MACD, how to interpret the Stochastic, the INDU/YM stretch, the odds on FBP/FTP breakouts, etc. If you can state this, then perhaps your critics here will be confounded. Perhaps if you have a cheat sheet you use for trading you could just attach that. I ask because some individual elements of the method backtest with large negative expectancy. Obviously it must be precticed as a whole. Thanks.
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Here is something that I think will help you out. Backtest the 5 min rocket in conjunction to where the 15 min stoch is. For example, If you enter a rocket on the 5 min and it gets into a rocket on the 15 min, see what would have happened if you would have held until the 15 min stoch exited the rocket zone (25/75 for me). Then test to see what if you added an extra requirment like the macd to the 15 minute to consider that it has enough momentum too hold.

jc
 
...with the greatest sincerity I can muster (and contrary to my completely insincere posting history), what you described to me is not a testable system. A testable system has only one "strong" parameter. Any others have to be weak, otherwise you will find multiple (false) optima and you can never be sure (without pissing away real money) that the "system" you have found is not a random result. If I understand your post correctly, it had four rules. Not testable. Not testable means not tradeable.

I have read Jack/Bubba/Grob until I am fucking blind (just got new glasses) and I am looking for a clear explication of the method. I am totally willing to spend my personal time with you validating ANY testable method. Take any piece of the Jack methodology (synch, rockets, icebergs, reverses in bound ranges, breakouts from volume dry up, etc.) and if YOU understand it I can test it. My problem is that I am so fucking stupid that I don't understand it.

Please understand me. There are gross elements of Jack that I have found extremely helpful in my own trading, but the subtleties elude me. It is not productive to ask Jack, because the answer usually comes back so oracular (Delphic) that it is incomprehensible. If YOU understand it, I will be your disciple.

With hundreds of pages of Jack posts, surely you are not giving anything away if you describe how you consistently make money using the method. What I am asking you for is a simple "pull the trigger" decision making process. For example, VDU: you see the smallest volume of the last 20 five minute bars. That bar is an inside bar. You trade the breakout of that bar. That is a system with one strong and two weak rules, perfectly testable.
 
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