Economic Sanctions as a Weapon

Nobert said:
Just one question.

When it was the last time, that a country, suffered the same fate, without killing civilians ?
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I think the obvious, example would be North Korea? US sanctions are still even now on North Korea, although, they have not attacked any civilians, although, they sunk a South Korean warship by ramming it if I recall correctly. The sanctions were imposed to dissuade Kim Jong Il then, now Kim Jong Un (his son) from developing nuclear missiles? Kim Jon Un threatened to launch a nuclear missiles at the US too. Last I checked, they are still developing their nuclear missiles and just fired a hypersonic missile, which is even more deadly, just recently. What about Iran? The same case, they are developing nuclear missiles, with a view to attacking Israel? They are now discussing continuing the Iran nuclear deal. Iran very close now too, of developing their nuclear missiles and arsenal.
 
ktm said:
I also read a bit about the Crimea effort Putin made in 2014 and how there were sanctions applied against Russia back then. Several articles went into great detail about how he learned from that and made an effort in the last 8 years to avoid similar pain when he ventured out to take the next thing. They brought more things in house and gained autonomy over a number of areas where they were previously dependent on other countries. As you mention though, in a global economy there's really only so much he can do.
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What Putin messed up on is trusting the US financial system to give him access to Russia's huge reserves of $630 billion which the US, of course froze entirely. Had he had most of those monies in gold or maybe, some of it in rare earth minerals (stockpiled), the US and Europe would have had a hard time hurting Russia financially. Still, this painful lesson is learned by Putin. Never trust the US. Even future leaders of Russia not named Putin will remember this lesson.
 
smallfil said:
I think the obvious, example would be North Korea? US sanctions are still even now on North Korea, although, they have not attacked any civilians, although, they sunk a South Korean warship by ramming it if I recall correctly. The sanctions were imposed to dissuade Kim Jong Il then, now Kim Jong Un (his son) from developing nuclear missiles? Kim Jon Un threatened to launch a nuclear missiles at the US too. Last I checked, they are still developing their nuclear missiles and just fired a hypersonic missile, which is even more deadly, just recently. What about Iran? The same case, they are developing nuclear missiles, with a view to attacking Israel? They are now discussing continuing the Iran nuclear deal. Iran very close now too, of developing their nuclear missiles and arsenal.
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North Korea is killing their own. Good luck for Iran to develop anything, anything, until Isreal eliminates it in a second.

Any decent, democratic country, where citizens are not oppressed, by the regime, would be the most welcome example.

One problem. There is no such country.
All that suffers such sanctions, are the regimes of tyrons. No more. No less.
 
smallfil said:
What Putin messed up on is trusting the US financial system to give him access to Russia's huge reserves of $630 billion which the US, of course froze entirely. Had he had most of those monies in gold or maybe, some of it in rare earth minerals (stockpiled), the US and Europe would have had a hard time hurting Russia financially. Still, this painful lesson is learned by Putin. Never trust the US. Even future leaders of Russia not named Putin will remember this lesson.
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Has a significant portion of it (last I heard, high $100Bs) in gold. Physical gold. He is going to have serious problems converting that to hard currency.
 
terr said:
Has a significant portion of it (last I heard, high $100Bs) in gold. Physical gold. He is going to have serious problems converting that to hard currency.
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Physical gold can be bartered for other goods you need from other friendly, countries. Russia is not going to be trading with US and European countries for a while. US and European companies with Russia as customer will also, lose that business resulting in mass layoffs. European countries have tens of billions of dollars in exports to Russia, also lost thru sanctions. These sanctions is a two way street. Higher oil and commodities for Europe and the US is already happening. Higher inflation too coming soon on pretty much everything.
 
tiddlywinks said:
Economic sanctions are not one-way. Russia can just as easily sanction/confiscate from US people and/or companies.
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Russia exports $400B annually. That's to the whole world. $188B to EU. $5.8B to US. Compare that to the size of EU economy. (GDP: $15T). Russian economy: GDP: $1.48T. That's before the sanctions. No guesses what it will be in 2022.

And BP just wrote off $25B (that's billion) in order to walk away from Russia. Western companies will weather Russia nationalizations if those occur. Russia won't.

Yesterday I saw some idiotic high-placed Russian talking head on Russian TV talking about nationalizing IKEA and automobile factories in Russia. It was the height of idiocy (other talking heads were nodding and agreeing). The inventory in IKEA would run out in a couple of weeks and the plants are already shut down because they don't have the parts to run.
 
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smallfil said:
The Ukraine-Russia has shown how powerful economic sanctions can be. How, it can destroy an entire country, Russia when applied by the whole world? However, it also, showed it weakness. Russia was vulnerable, because Russia dollar reserves were all under the control of the US? Vladimir Putin obviously, missed that. All $630 billion of it, that he took pains to save? Now, this is an expensive lesson for Russia as well as other countries as well. Still, it will also, put in place a race, to change the world economic order to one that protects each country's sovereignty. China probably, laying the groundwork now, to avoid the same fate, by decoupling its economic assets from the US and Europe. Russia when this war is over, will do the same. Any other country will be a fool, not to. Now, here is the problem, once you lose the economic power of sanctions, your only option left is the military solution or wars to settle disputes between countries? So, China waits for the opportunity to invade and take Taiwan, knowing it has the economic and military power to do so. China produces most of what the world wants now thanks to the globalization promoted by US and European traitors to their countries. Even rare earth minerals used in multiple applications, including military weapons are dominated by China. China would be the next big threat, to world peace but, even a bigger threat than Russia, with its economic and military power----it is coming too!
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Unless the trend changes, China could have military and economic superiority in 10 to 20 years. Maybe even less.
This should never have happened. The west has enabled China and it will regret it one day.
 
terr said:
Russia exports $400B annually. That's to the whole world. $188B to EU. $5.8B to US. Compare that to the size of EU economy. (GDP: $15T). Russian economy: GDP: $1.48T. That's before the sanctions. No guesses what it will be in 2022.

And BP just wrote off $25B (that's billion) in order to walk away from Russia. Western companies will weather Russia nationalizations if those occur. Russia won't.

Yesterday I saw some idiotic high-placed Russian talking head on Russian TV talking about nationalizing IKEA and automobile factories in Russia. It was the height of idiocy (other talking heads were nodding and agreeing). The inventory in IKEA would run out in a couple of weeks and the plants are already shut down because they don't have the parts to run.
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<< Western companies will weather Russia nationalizations if those occur. Russia won't. >>

I have not factchecked your numbers. It would serve no purpose anyway.

Meanwhile, Russia is a nuclear power. It also has tactical nuclear weapons, as well as highly capable, some would argue the finest, cyber-attackers in the world. Oh yea... For now, it supplies energy to the EU. And used to supply upwards of 30% of the worlds fertilizer and measurable percentage of certain grains. Fertilizer and grains have since been halted for export (to the west). And the USA continues to pay upwards of 70 to 100 million a day to Russia for oil, despite US imposed sanctions.

To think China, Iran, North Korea, and others would not line-up on the side of Russia to secure it's survival is wishful, and ostrich-like.
 
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