Ecc ram and Xeon vs i7?

S

Skyline

Im about to build a workstation. I will be using it for automatic trading and manual trading using IB, and statistical analysis.

I am trying to chose between Xeon and i7. Is ECC ram worth it, or is the over clockable i7 a better deal. I heard Ecc was important to prevent problems with automated trading. I may be making a living out of this machine. If over locking could cause problems, I will probably get the Xeon for the Ecc ram.
 
Don't waste time and efforts on overclocking and do not waste money on a Xeon machine. I doubt you will reach hardware limitations when you test or profile ideas on a i7 machine using R or Python, unless you are having professional experience as quant or statistician.

Go with a stock i7, plenty memory (>= 32gb), and get a capable SSD drive.

Everything else hinges on your design, profiling and programming skills.

Skyline said:
Im about to build a workstation. I will be using it for automatic trading and manual trading using IB, and statistical analysis.

I am trying to chose between Xeon and i7. Is ECC ram worth it, or is the over clockable i7 a better deal. I heard Ecc was important to prevent problems with automated trading. I may be making a living out of this machine. If over locking could cause problems, I will probably get the Xeon for the Ecc ram.
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The people who buy workstations, on this forum, with ecc ram are getting them very cheap at the dell outlet store.
 
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Skyline said:
Im about to build a workstation. I will be using it for automatic trading and manual trading using IB, and statistical analysis.

I am trying to chose between Xeon and i7. Is ECC ram worth it, or is the over clockable i7 a better deal. I heard Ecc was important to prevent problems with automated trading. I may be making a living out of this machine. If over locking could cause problems, I will probably get the Xeon for the Ecc ram.
More...

I've had Dell workstations for the last 10 years or so. Some with ECC, some with NECC. For what I'm running, I can tell no difference... and NECC is significantly less expensive in most cases. Dell workstations can usually run either ECC or NECC... you just can't mix them.

I like the idea of a workstation-class machine... for supposed higher component quality, reliability and tech support... but not because of ECC.
 
ECC is for server stability and reliably so in theory it could help prevent some memory fault crash. It would be extremely unlikely that you would ever put the PC under that much stress, unless perhaps you're looking at setting up some massive automated trading operation where you might be placing thousands of trades a minute.

Regardless, it is certainly no guarantee that the applications themselves would not crash, completely independent of a RAM-related crash which is all that ECC ram is protecting you against.

That said, what's an extra 10-20% cost increase in RAM / motherboard to support the ECC ram for someone who plans on making their livelihood from said machine? You're willing to put the integrity of your trades at risk for a few dollars in the scheme of things?
 
Why not trading on an external server instance if safety is a priority? In 2015 owning workstation or server hardware (unless you can buy in bulk which retail does not) makes no sense cost wise and safety wise.

Agree with you that most likely applications fail. And not sure why some buy a workstation and then use Ninja trader or other lightweight apps. It's at least not a wise choice to allocate resources

pyradius said:
ECC is for server stability and reliably so in theory it could help prevent some memory fault crash. It would be extremely unlikely that you would ever put the PC under that much stress, unless perhaps you're looking at setting up some massive automated trading operation where you might be placing thousands of trades a minute.

Regardless, it is certainly no guarantee that the applications themselves would not crash, completely independent of a RAM-related crash which is all that ECC ram is protecting you against.

That said, what's an extra 10-20% cost increase in RAM / motherboard to support the ECC ram for someone who plans on making their livelihood from said machine? You're willing to put the integrity of your trades at risk for a few dollars in the scheme of things?
More...
 
I looked at this but more cfrom a RAM capacity angle as my application not speed or CPU intensive but some of what I discovered applies here

Do you want speed or capacity? - either RAM or data crunching capability? An oversimplification Core i7 is more clock speed Xeons are more data crunching capability AND you can have 2 or more working together. Choose your Xeon carefully - some Xeons are designed for speed, others for things such as low power useage. With Xeon you can better match the CPU profile to the task. Low end i7 (all i7?) can't use ECC RAM. Can your program use more than 1 core? - dont need 6 core/12 thread if not.

First off check the 1150 socket i7 memory controller is not locked at 32 GB as are low end Xeons. Basically for more then 32Gb you have to go to LGA2011 socket and X79 and newer motherboards. There are 16GB NON ECC DIMMs available for $300 each if you can't stand the slowness of ECC. For more than 64 GB and 128GB below this price point then generally you have to go to Xeon/workstations and ECC RAM. High end Xeons have minimum 256GB-756Gb or 1Tb+ limits. Above 128GB RAM likely need LRDIMM ECC RAM - it is the buffering/load reduction more than the error correction that makes ECC RAM suitable for large size/many DIMMs.

The solutions I looked at were:
Secondhand server with 128GB off ebay - old hardware being sold for a reason - with same mainboard components maybe not replaceable if they fail and backward compatibility issues with HW and S/W (drives especially). Also if very old 4XXeon may be effectively 4x Pentium 4 with 512MB cache each so not enough processing power. At$300 could serve purpose as a test run that can be left in place if it all works until it doesn't.

Buy new/ish server/workstation designed for this - cost and also paying for server level things you might not need - I don't need hot swappable redundant power supplies - can change it after I have had my morning coffee is OK - don't need capability to support 16 HDD RAID. That said the poweredge 920 can support 4x Xeon and 6TB RAM (64x96DIMM) - you just have to pay

Build with basic server board that can handle the RAM - this will be my solution if I need to go to 128 or 256 to do what I want as it means I am not paying for things I don't need - e.g maybe can opt for cheaper Xeon that has Cache and memory support but just does not have the clock speed. Stability and in particular RAM recognition issues seems to be an issue with i7's with 8 installed DIMM - using server and ECC you are using a solution that is proven to work 24/7 in thousands of installations.

Don't rule out as as been mentioned using a SSD as a RAM substitute - W7 x64 page file max is 3x size of installed RAM - this is my current way of handling it - but with my application limited by the 32GB RAM as if the initial load exceeds RAM it hangs - the page file SSD mops up the memory leaks.

The other important thing is can your program handle it - I am holding back from a 128 or 256 GB build because I am not sure the program can follow the hardware. Note I just need capacity - speed is not important and also not CPU intensive. Waste of money if the program can't use the hardware - I am having problems with neither corei7 or 32GB maxed out.

W7 Ultimate up t o 2? processors and max 196GB RAM - Win Server if you need above that.

Lastly make sure your internet connection does not render all this not wothwhile.
 
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volpunter said:
Don't waste time and efforts on overclocking and do not waste money on a Xeon machine. I doubt you will reach hardware limitations when you test or profile ideas on a i7 machine using R or Python, unless you are having professional experience as quant or statistician.

Go with a stock i7, plenty memory (>= 32gb), and get a capable SSD drive.

Everything else hinges on your design, profiling and programming skills.
More...

If you're running 5-minute candlestick charts with a moving average and MACD, sure. My stuff runs at tick level. I melt i7s.
 
ECC ram worth it along with Xeon only on some dedicated server for all your home needs and your software you will be really happy with i7 or maybe i9 if you really want to spend some money here and there, please let me know if it's fine with you.
 
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