rational people are still pretty smart. they will only commit the crime if they think its worth the risk. if ebbers is rational he either thought he couldnt lose (zero risk) because of his power/status or he thought 30 yrs of prison was worth the $$$ he stole. its probably the former because people were irrational in the boom... that doesnt excuse him tho
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Ebbers 30 years
- Thread starter SWScapital
- Start date
Quote from swtrader:
his baked numbers were used in much of the telco equip buildout
he contributed to the loss of hundered of billions of dollars
this guy wiped out thousands of lifetimes of people's work, he detroyed thousands of retirements
serving the rest of his life wouldnt even begin to pay for what he did
really. what about all the people he employed during this time? what about all the companies (there were over 80) whose owners and employees benefited from purchase by Worldcom? What about the increased net worth of all shareholders who then used the assets he created to acquire other assets?
Etc.
Think outside the box. Just once.
Quote from aPismoClam:
the penal system is not supposed to be institutionalized slavery.
It's actually much worse if you don't go to the white collar country club prisons, it becomes sexual slavery.
Quote from aPismoClam:
really. what about all the people he employed during this time? what about all the companies (there were over 80) whose owners and employees benefited from purchase by Worldcom? What about the increased net worth of all shareholders who then used the assets he created to acquire other assets?
Etc.
Think outside the box. Just once.
So he did the right thing by cooking the books? Oh ok. Or was it the right thing for the crooked side of the equation and the innocent mom & pop take it in the rear once it all explodes.
Get real. Even in the manipulative game of business, capitalism & stock market there is a fine line.
Quote from Hydroblunt:
It's actually much worse if you don't go to the white collar country club prisons, it becomes sexual slavery.
So he did the right thing by cooking the books? Oh ok. Or was it the right thing for the crooked side of the equation and the innocent mom & pop take it in the rear once it all explodes.
Get real. Even in the manipulative game of business, capitalism & stock market there is a fine line.
the discussion wasn't about "doing the right thing," it was about all the malevolent downside caused by this evil greedy American white boy from the bible belt and why he should "rot in prison."
any discussion about the downside is incomplete without a fair evaluation of the upside -- and there was upside.
i'm so over this "innocent mom and pop" crap. you get real. who twisted their arms and told them to believe it when the analysts said the stock couldn't stop going up? anyone who's lived long enough to be a mom or pop ought to know better. and if not, well, caveat emptor. it's not like he hacked into their bank accounts.
I don't think the charge of "theft" was even levied against him.
Without long distance competion from mci, sprint and others a long time ago, you'd be paying $1/min to ATT today and there probably would be no ip/telephony.
Quote from dividend:
competition? mci defrauded ATT. duh.
the cost of phone rates is going to zero. mci has nothing to do with it. ip telephony = $0.
This is the difference between PUBLIC and private companies. When you are the CEO of a public company and you sign phony documents or give out untrue or misleading or false information you are committing securities fraud!!!!!
Most of these clowns forgot that it is not their company.
An investor is buying shares in that company based on the profit/loss, revenue etc etc. That is how the value of the share of stock is decided. Phony numbers results in loss to shareholders and you have the problem.
How about this situation???
You decide to sell your house. A buyer agrees to pay you the asking price of $400,000. But during his inspection he comes back and wants you to rebate him $25,000 because of various needed repairs. Sounds reasonable so you agree. At closing, he is signing loan documents as he is getting a 90% LTV. Both you and he have signed all documents necessary to close transaction and fund money. After closing you rebate him back that $25,000 for the repairs.
You very well may be guilty of BANK FRAUD!!!
You go to bank and borrow $15,000 for various repairs on your house, but you also spend $750 repairing your car. BANK FRAUD!!!
Be very careful what you sign when the FEDS are involved.
SteveD
Most of these clowns forgot that it is not their company.
An investor is buying shares in that company based on the profit/loss, revenue etc etc. That is how the value of the share of stock is decided. Phony numbers results in loss to shareholders and you have the problem.
How about this situation???
You decide to sell your house. A buyer agrees to pay you the asking price of $400,000. But during his inspection he comes back and wants you to rebate him $25,000 because of various needed repairs. Sounds reasonable so you agree. At closing, he is signing loan documents as he is getting a 90% LTV. Both you and he have signed all documents necessary to close transaction and fund money. After closing you rebate him back that $25,000 for the repairs.
You very well may be guilty of BANK FRAUD!!!
You go to bank and borrow $15,000 for various repairs on your house, but you also spend $750 repairing your car. BANK FRAUD!!!
Be very careful what you sign when the FEDS are involved.
SteveD
Quote from aPismoClam:
any discussion about the downside is incomplete without a fair evaluation of the upside -- and there was upside.
Hey listen, I'm far from living in a fairy tale world where everything is fine & dandy & fair but there is a fine line and there are RULES in the game of greedy capitalism & stock trading. It is a GAME and the game has to have some rules otherwise it all turns to chaos.
What's the real upside without the eventual downside that more than negates any previous gain. Yeah, every company plays with their books, the whole GAAP is set up where it is very flexible to slant your #s whichever way you want. But blatant cooking of the books is crossing the line. Otherwise, what's the point of even doing real business? Why not start a company and funnel most of the expenses as cap ex to "grow" assets then use it to get more money & credit, run up the price and make some ppl rich. Hey, if everyone starts doing it, we'll have a roaring bull market, then everyone benefits, right?
Ebbers will die in jail and rot in hell...