Earn 2 Trade the gauntlet

$3.89 rt "all in" was the best I could do with Rithmic/Ninja in the Gauntlet on ES.

Because of the exchange fees, Rithmic fee...etc. the MES commission market will never be 1/10th commish.

Retail traders do best at AMP & Tradovate.

ES


canoe said:
yes, spreads on the micros are surprisingly tight. MES is always a 1-tick spread and MNQ flutters between 1 and 2 tick spreads.

spreads and fills are so good on the micros i was really pleasantly surprised. the only thing you need to worry about the micros (besides the trading part) is the commissions you're paying to trade them.

if you're paying ANYTHING over $0.50/side or $1/RT, you're being ripped off. and you should care a ton about commissions when trading the micros, more than with any other product since the per-side fee as a % of the tick value is obviously much much higher with these small-sized products.

i would highly discourage anyone from trading the micros in the gauntlet or with helios under the current commission structure.
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canoe said:
i asked E2T customer support about this and they said if you want to trade the micros in the gauntlet, you can opt-out of the default $4.44/RT fee and pay separate fees according to this: https://help.earn2trade.com/en/arti...e-at-helios-or-on-the-live-simulation-account

so for example, the RT cost for trading 1 contratc of MNQ would be:

FCM commissions: $1.50
+
Rithmic Fee: $0.50
+
NFA Fee: $0.04
+
Exchange Fees: $0.40

= $2.44/RT

which is an absolute joke. i couldn't tell if they were being serious at first.

note, this would also be the fee you would be paying to trade the micros in the live, helios account.

i pay $0.78/RT for MES/MNQ/MYM with AMP futures. $0.78/RT!

you're basically paying 3x more if you trade the micros in either the gauntlet or the live helios account.
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There are fees we just can’t control, it’s not us setting these prices. AMP is a discount retail brokerage. They do not allow prop or professional traders.

Rithmic fees and FCM commissions are the bulk of the pricing. If you trade on Finamark you can reduce the Rithmic fee by $0.15 a side ($0.30/RT). The FCM fee can also be reduced down to $.70 RT if you’re doing volume. That puts it at $1.44RT.

It’s never going to be as cheap as a discount retail brokerage. However, depending on your trading style it may not matter. We have plenty of people who pass trading micros and are fine with the rates. We hope in the future the FCM will lower the rates even more (they started off at 1.50/side and its currently .35-.75).
 
Hello Ryan,

I parsed your post below. 5000 trades for 1/10th of a point....can you imagine what your micro traders can do for Helios with the ES and 250K? It sounds like you are mining some great traders for Helios...congrats! I mean that. I have watched you grow and you deserve it!

There are fees we just can’t control, it’s not us setting these prices. AMP is a discount retail brokerage. They do not allow prop or professional traders. Even if you pay $105.00 per month really?

Rithmic fees and FCM commissions are the bulk of the pricing. If you trade on Finamark you can reduce the Rithmic fee by $0.15 a side ($0.30/RT). The FCM fee can also be reduced down to $.70 RT if you’re doing volume.
1-1,500 Round Turns per Month = $0.75 per side
1,501-2500 Round Turns per month = $0.65 per side
2501-3500 Round Turns per month = $0.55 per side
3501-5000 Round Turns per month = $0.45 per side
5,000+ Round Turns per month = $0.35 per side

We have plenty of people who pass trading micros and are fine with the rates.
Wow they just started trading in May? your first traders just passed!

ES
 
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Just for the RETAIL traders who like to negotiate....

At the time of this post...0.62RT "all in" is the best you can do with the micros. That is no commish for the broker. I do not know any brokers who work for free. Leasing a seat is your next step.

The fee collectors decided not to reduce the fees to 1/10th of the ES fees for the micros eventhough they trade at 1/10th of a point ($50.00 down to $5.00).

ES

Here is Tradovates list that itemizes fees in a table format:
https://www.tradovate.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Tradovate All In Rates 043019.pdf
 
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ElectricSavant said:
Hello Ryan,

I parsed your post below. 5000 trades for 1/10th of a point....can you imagine what your micro traders can do for Helios with the ES? It sounds like you are mining some great traders for Helios...congrats! I mean that. I have watched you grow and you deserve it!

There are fees we just can’t control, it’s not us setting these prices. AMP is a discount retail brokerage. They do not allow prop or professional traders.

Rithmic fees and FCM commissions are the bulk of the pricing. If you trade on Finamark you can reduce the Rithmic fee by $0.15 a side ($0.30/RT). The FCM fee can also be reduced down to $.70 RT if you’re doing volume.
1-1,500 Round Turns per Month = $0.75 per side
1,501-2500 Round Turns per month = $0.65 per side
2501-3500 Round Turns per month = $0.55 per side
3501-5000 Round Turns per month = $0.45 per side
5,000+ Round Turns per month = $0.35 per side

We have plenty of people who pass trading micros and are fine with the rates.
Wow they just started trading in May? your first traders just passed!

ES
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Micros started in May, yes, but we also have ES/NQ traders who were trading the full size contracts already and switched over as soon as they were available.
 
ETer's...Helios is a profitable model...imagine 100 prop-traders with 25k making 10%....Helios gets 20% of that profit each month.

I will not do the long version of the math for you...(50k/mo gross for 2.5mil notional) Most likely everything is combined into one master account. I am not counting net commissions after admin for trading.

My point is that it is important for you as a retail trader to affiliate yourself with a profitable company when going prop...also Helios does not have its prop traders as independent contractors. They are operating legally without any unclear policies that could be destroyed with a regulators stricter enforcement...

I am impressed with the management of Earn2Trade and Helios. They had a vision and built from there. Face it...Ryan wants to help himself and traders...he could simply trade himself by trading his own money and no headaches...but he continues as he has a "calling" to find and help good traders.

ES
 
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Folks...I have a feeling that you need to concentrate on getting your certificate (pass the Gauntlet).

Then...

The whole trading world will open up for you...I think if you choose Helios that everything is not engraved in stone if you trade well (a balance of low drawdown and good yield)...You can write your own ticket.

ES
 
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Illini Trader said:
Again thanks for the experiential information. I must be living in a cave because I had not heard of these micro contracts until ES mentioned in this thread a few posts ago. Thanks ES! When were they introduced?
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Earn2Trade-Ryan said:
There are fees we just can’t control, it’s not us setting these prices. AMP is a discount retail brokerage. They do not allow prop or professional traders.

Rithmic fees and FCM commissions are the bulk of the pricing. If you trade on Finamark you can reduce the Rithmic fee by $0.15 a side ($0.30/RT). The FCM fee can also be reduced down to $.70 RT if you’re doing volume. That puts it at $1.44RT.

It’s never going to be as cheap as a discount retail brokerage. However, depending on your trading style it may not matter. We have plenty of people who pass trading micros and are fine with the rates. We hope in the future the FCM will lower the rates even more (they started off at 1.50/side and its currently .35-.75).
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you've misunderstood my point.

your fees for all non-micro products are similar to discount retail brokers. for example, cost for trading 1 ES contract with AMP Futures is $4.40/RT (lowest volume tier). this is right in line with the cost for trading 1 ES contract with Helios.

Helios' all-in commissions for all products except the micros are very close to the commissions we'd pay at discount futures brokerages.

so the argument that Helios's commissions are necessarily higher than those of a discount futures brokerage because it serves prop and pro traders isn't even true. if that were the case, it would be much more expensive to trade ES/NQ/YM/RTY/CL/NG/GC/ZN/ZB/etc. with helios than with AMP.

but it isn't.

the problem is that your FCM doesn't charge a lower "FCM fee" for the micros. it charges the exact same "FCM fee" for the micros as it does the eminis, which are 10x the size.

you can't just say Helios does this b/c they're a PRO firm. they why do philip capital, gh financials, IB, etc. all of whom serve professional/prop/HF clients charge both a lower clearing fee and a lower broker-commission fee for the micros? i'm not talking AMP or Ninjatrader or Stage5trading here.

And let's be real: saying that "The FCM fee can also be reduced down to $.70 RT if you’re doing volume" without mentioning that "doing volume" equals "5000+ Round Turns per month" is a bit disingenuous.

it's cool you hope to have the FCM rates go lower in the future but the point that's lost on you is that you don't have separate FCM rates for the micros like other FCMs. your FCM rates for the full-sized products (ES/CL/GC/ZN/etc.) are already fine. they aren't the lowest in the industry but they aren't that high either. nobody's complaining about paying $4-5/RT for trading those non-micro products with Helios.
 
ElectricSavant said:
So the traders at Helios have freedom to change instruments.
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I was referring to Gauntlet™ candidates trading in their Gauntlet™ with full size contracts and then switching over once micro's came out.
 
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