Duref Mudgins Invites Jack Hershey to Reminisce

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i dont get why people would post a simple picture of a trade and say that the system works or not work....

this is how people sell garbage trading system all over the internet.... because like the internet, the market is full of possibilities and permutations.... so yes, you are always going to be able to find a chart, a setup that demonstrate whatever you want as a working system or pattern.

the only thing to debunk the myth is to record A FULL DAY'S trading..... IT DOESN"T EVEN HAVE TO BE A VIDEO... someone could simple open up a room on mIRC, and we can have jack or spydertrader post real trades as he trades..... there are mIRC scripts out there where it makes easy for people to show their trades live in a chatroom..... and we can even mute all the other participants.... so the only people allowed to talk and post trades would be JACK or SPYDER.... so there will be no distractions at all......

but of course, they will continue to say, they have nothing to prove.... and their followers will post a random setup that so happened to work.... and neglect to mention the other 5 that failed.

I mean really... jack hershey's initial method was simple.... then many things were injected into it and the equities method were transformed into the ever complex futures method...... making it even harder to debunk due to the complexity.... and i've looked at it.... if you look at many people's interpretations of B2B, R2B, B2R, R2R volume..... it's all subjective..... one person would take this bar to make current volume trend a B2B... while another guy would use another volume bar to make it R2B.... so in other words, the system is almost like a puzzle where you try to use whatever pieces you can find to fit the price action.

Again, it's not hard to settle this once and for all. just record a full trading day..... OR have a mIRC chat room and show your real live trades..

neither of this require any extra work.... nor time.... and neither will take time off your trading... and neither will create a distraction.

so why not?

if spyder had the time to post 20+ charts during the trading days.... i'm sure leaving a screen recorder running in the background of his computer.... or have a mirc script to show his real time trades wont be any hassles to him.

just a thought...

and by the way, who knows what the new version of the hershey method will look like...... it seems new things will get implemented each 2-3 years.... to satisfy the soap opera fans..... new things to add that nobody can really make it to work.... and at the same time, not be able to disprove also.

just seem like a way to keep this artificial thing alive and perpetuating
 
Quote from chiefraven:

i dont get why people would post a simple picture of a trade and say that the system works or not work....

this is how people sell garbage trading system all over the internet.... because like the internet, the market is full of possibilities and permutations.... so yes, you are always going to be able to find a chart, a setup that demonstrate whatever you want as a working system or pattern.

the only thing to debunk the myth is to record A FULL DAY'S trading..... IT DOESN"T EVEN HAVE TO BE A VIDEO... someone could simple open up a room on mIRC, and we can have jack or spydertrader post real trades as he trades..... there are mIRC scripts out there where it makes easy for people to show their trades live in a chatroom..... and we can even mute all the other participants.... so the only people allowed to talk and post trades would be JACK or SPYDER.... so there will be no distractions at all......

but of course, they will continue to say, they have nothing to prove.... and their followers will post a random setup that so happened to work.... and neglect to mention the other 5 that failed.

I mean really... jack hershey's initial method was simple.... then many things were injected into it and the equities method were transformed into the ever complex futures method...... making it even harder to debunk due to the complexity.... and i've looked at it.... if you look at many people's interpretations of B2B, R2B, B2R, R2R volume..... it's all subjective..... one person would take this bar to make current volume trend a B2B... while another guy would use another volume bar to make it R2B.... so in other words, the system is almost like a puzzle where you try to use whatever pieces you can find to fit the price action.

Again, it's not hard to settle this once and for all. just record a full trading day..... OR have a mIRC chat room and show your real live trades..

neither of this require any extra work.... nor time.... and neither will take time off your trading... and neither will create a distraction.

so why not?

if spyder had the time to post 20+ charts during the trading days.... i'm sure leaving a screen recorder running in the background of his computer.... or have a mirc script to show his real time trades wont be any hassles to him.

just a thought...

and by the way, who knows what the new version of the hershey method will look like...... it seems new things will get implemented each 2-3 years.... to satisfy the soap opera fans..... new things to add that nobody can really make it to work.... and at the same time, not be able to disprove also.

just seem like a way to keep this artificial thing alive and perpetuating
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You’re wasting your time. Once someone believes in an idea, they become committed. Once committed,
neutrality is skewed, and rational thought takes a back seat. On comparison, someone that comes in and sees something with fresh eyes and is operating with rationality, they can see the system behind the fog. Once one becomes a true believer, no words or proof will make them change their minds. Sort of like religions through out the world………. “ blessed are those who believe with out needing the proof, for they shall inherit the kingdom of Grob”…..
 
Quote from chiefraven:

i dont get why people would post a simple picture of a trade and say that the system works or not work....
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People do the very thing you have requested every day, yet somehow, you fail to see their posts.

Quote from lilduckling:

You’re wasting your time. Once someone believes in an idea, they become committed. Once committed,
neutrality is skewed, and rational thought takes a back seat.
More...

Kindly post the scientific method you used to invalidate the Price-Volume Realtionship. Otherwise, the logic you posted applies to you and not those who profit fom the methods.

Quite ironic.

- Spydertrader
 
Quote from lilduckling:

.. “ blessed are those who believe with out needing the proof, for they shall inherit the kingdom of Grob”…..
More...
"doveryai, no proveryai" -Russian proverbs.
 
"People do the very thing you have requested every day, yet somehow, you fail to see their posts."

where are they exactly?
================

i'm not talking about a picture or two of their good trades where the price so happened to fit the system....

i'm talking about a full day's video recording..

or a live mIRC log of all your trades.
==============

this actually exists? or are you pointing me to the post where each person posts like 1 of their trade where they say! hey FT! my trade worked!
 
Kindly post the scientific method you used to invalidate the Price-Volume Realtionship. Otherwise, the logic you posted applies to you and not those who profit fom the methods.

Quite ironic.

- Spydertrader [/B][/QUOTE]


Price-Volume Relationship is the unrefined raw concept. There have been hundreds if not thousands of systems that were/are based on price-volume relationship. I can not argue that price / volume doesn’t work because the x-factor, which is the return, is not defined. The same as mutual funds, no one will argue that over x-amount of time, one can make money investing in mutual funds. The argument can easily be made that mutual funds do work. But are they really successful by a traders stand point? Of course not. I agree, price-volume as a raw concept is valid, but its akin to say…. Wheat bread. If you take wheat kernels, ground them up, add water and a little yeast, you make bread. It will be very healthy for you, chock full of nutrients and fiber. But have you ever walked down a supermarket isle and picked up a package of sliced bread and read the ingredients? Its not just wheat is it? it’s a paragraph long list of ingredients most of which are chemicals. Its been so refined its not healthy anymore. But it has a long shelf life and is cheap, ideal for mass consumption.

I have no argument with you anyways…….. your boss….. bring out our boss …..
 
Quote from chiefraven:

this actually exists? or are you pointing me to the post where each person posts like 1 of their trade where they say! hey FT! my trade worked!
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Backtests, year long forward tests, individual trades, entire day's worth of trades, an entire year worth of trades. They all exist within the pages of ET. In addition, people from every continent on the planet (excluding Antarctica) trade using the Price-Volume relationship while posting that which you have requested (in one form or another).

Now, which seems more likely? Individuals (many of whom have never met, spoken or even corresponded) from all walks of life have decided to create a grand, world-wide conspiracy in an effort to fool anonymous usernames on an internet Web Site into believing they have the ability to trade profitiably - with no other payback than obtaining fictitious 'street cred' with members of global trading 'cult.' Or, many people already profit from the methods they learned from reading some journals (combined with doing the work required from the instructions provided), and find no value 'proving' things already supplied.

Oddly enough, I once observed from a skeptical vantage point just as you do now. However, a significant difference existed then, as it does today. Rather than demand others provide proof for me. I supplied the proof required for myself. You can still see this proof archived on the MSN Web Site. Once I 'proved' to myself the possibility existed to achive the results claimed, my journey became a quest to transition from Point A to Point B. Such a journey places the responsibility for movement squarely on the shoulders of the individual attempting to learn.

One need not take my world for it either. Each step of the process exists in the archives. One simply need go and look it up to see for themselves.

- Spydertrader
 
Quote from lilduckling:

I have no argument with you anyways…….. your boss….. bring out [y]our boss …..
More...

Nor, do I have an arguement with you.

My initial reason for entering the trading profession stemed from my lack of enjoyment working in and for corporate America. As such, trading for a living provided me the perfect opportunity to 'have no boss.' However, if you believe Jack has attempted to create a legion of followers, then you missed the point of his posts entirely. Jack has zero desire to teach people to trade. Read his posts, and note well, that Jack provides the framework necessary for someone to learn. Jack does not provide laundry lists of rules for trading.

Jack wants people to learn how to think, and in the process of learning to think, one can learn how to trade on their own.

- Spydertrader
 
To all this thread's contributors, my most heartfelt thanks for engaging in a semi-uncivil dialogue. It was interesting to see Jack et al drawn out and to read such a wide variety of views on the methods. And many thanks to moderation for allowing the thread to survive and for keeping it up at least to ET's low standards. I am at ET's disposal any time to facilitate a Jack thread, since he modestly declines to start one himself. Jack knows he always has a friend here in me.
 
where are these full day's trading videos spyder are talking about here...

if anyone of the hershey method/spyder trader are out there.... we would love to see them
 
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