double standard - bodies of saddam's sons
- Thread starter Gordon Gekko
- Start date
80% suicide bombers ?
Operation Pointblank: Evolution of Allied Air Doctrine
In October 1943, the U.S. Eighth Air Force's losses became critical, forcing a reappraisal of the American daylight bombing strategy.
by Brian Todd Carey
On October 14, 1943, the air war over Europe reached a critical turning point. On that Thursday, the United States Eighth Air Force mounted Mission No. 115 against the city of Schweinfurt, the center of the German ball bearing industry.
Sixteen bomber groups from the 1st and 3rd Air divisions would participate in the strike. In all, 291 Boeing B-17 Flying Fortresses took off from bases in England and headed east toward the German border. As the bombers formed up over the Channel, short-range British Supermarine Spitfire fighters climbed to escort the heavies to the Continent. There, Republic P-47 Thunderbolts took over, escorting the flying armada to the German border. But insufficient range prevented the Thunderbolts from keeping the bombers company all the way to the target. Turning back somewhere around Aachen, just inside the German border, the P-47s left the unescorted bombers to a catastrophic fate.
Out of 291 bombers dispatched, 257 actually entered German airspace. Sixty were shot down, just over 20 percent of the total number. Two hundred twenty-nine B-17s reached Schweinfurt and dropped their bombs. Only 197 returned to England. Of those, five planes were abandoned or crashed on landing, while 17 others landed so damaged that they had to be written off. Altogether, 82 of the 291 original bombers that left England were lost, more than 28 percent of the entire force assigned to the raid.
Moreover, the Schweinfurt raid was the climax of a week of strikes against German industrial targets. Between October 8 and 14, 1943, the Eighth Air Force flew 1,342 heavy bomber sorties, losing a total of 152 bombers (11.3 percent), with another 6 percent receiving heavy damage. During the entire month of October, the Eighth lost a total of 214 heavy bombers, almost 10 percent of the total number dispatched. Lost and damaged planes constituted more than half the sorties flown during the month. At that rate of attrition, an entirely new bomber force would be required every three months in order to maintain the Allied bomber offensive.
After the prohibitive losses sustained in October 1943, the Eighth Air Force suspended deep bomber strikes into German territory. Two premises of daylight strategic bombing--that bombers would be able to get through enemy defenses and back without escorts, and that destroying the enemy's industrial base would cripple its war effort--appeared to be greatly mistaken. American air leaders, recognizing the inability of unescorted heavy bombers to get through and bomb German industry without excessive losses, questioned the very foundation of American air strategy. But why did American air leaders initially believe their heavy bombers would always get through, and what were the consequences of the American strategic doctrine when applied in the skies over the Third Reich? How has American air doctrine changed as a result?
ctd http://history1900s.about.com/library/prm/bloperationpointblank1.htm
World War II, deaths by country
Country Military/ Civilian/ Total
Soviet Union* 8,668,000 16,900,000 25,568,000
China 1,324,000 10,000,000 11,324,000
Germany 3,250,000 3,810,000 7,060,000
Poland 850,000 6,000,000 6,850,000
Japan 1,506,000 300,000 1,806,000
Yugoslavia 300,000 1,400,000 1,700,000
Rumania* 520,000 465,000 985,000
France* 340,000 470,000 810,000
Hungary* 750,000
Austria 380,000 145,000 525,000
Greece* 520,000
Italy 330,000 80,000 410,000
Czechoslovakia 400,000
Great Britain 326,000 62,000 388,000
USA 295,000 295,000
Holland 14,000 236,000 250,000
Belgium 10,000 75,000 85,000
Finland 79,000 79,000
Canada 42,000 42,000
India 36,000 *** 36,000
Australia 29,000 29,000
Spain** 12,000 10,000 22,000
Bulgaria 19,000 2,000 21,000
New Zealand 12,000 12,000
South Africa 9,000 9,000
Norway 5,000 5,000
Denmark 4,000 4,000
Total circa 61 Million
The victims of the Holocaust: an estimation...
This estimated number is given by Martin Gilbert in his excellent book "Atlas of the Holocaust". It represents the authentic (analysis) total of Jews exterminated between September 1th, 1939 and May 8th, 1945. The total of the Jewish victims is just over 5,750,000 and is based on such country by country and region by region records as survive.
Such a total, however, can never be complete. Thousands of infants and babies were murdered, by the Nazi killing squads in the autumn of 1941, for example, before their birth could be recorded for any 'statistical' purpose. Thousands more individuals, especially in the remoter villages of Poland were 'added' to the deportation trains which left larger localities, without any numerical register being made of their existence or fate.
In fact, this total is a strict minimum. It does not include the many thousands of political opponents executed in the camps, the hundreds of thousands of Russian POW's, and all the forgotten minorities: gypsies, homosexuals, etc. Accurate numbers for exactly how many humans died as a result of the Nazi plans are simply not available and never will be.
Research by some of the worlds most able historians place the number of Holocaust victims murdered by German government policy to be not less than twelve million and probably more.
Some of the figures included in this list are extremly accurate. These numbers are coming from the extermination groups themselves. They are extracted from written reports sent to Berlin by the chiefs of the Einsatzgruppen, and other internal German sources.
Just a last comment. These last years some historians and or revisionists have changed the estimated number of Jews killed during the Holocaust from 6 million to 2.5 million. This new estimation is based on the fact that Soviet historians may have inflated the number of Soviet victims for political reasons. Some revisionists or deniers are using this new estimated number of victims in order to minimize the Holocaust or even to deny its reality. Even with different estimates and keep in mnd, they are estimates, the Holocaust took the lives of millions of innocent people. Even if this new estimation is accurate, which it may not be, the question still must be asked; is the extermination of 2.5 million innocent victims more justifiable than the extermination of 6 million people? And even if there were "only"100,000 or 10,000 or 1,000 victims, this number does not justify the horror of the Nazi's extermination policy. The deniers are just trying to make banal the murder of millions of innocent people by German government policy.
Vincent Châtel and Chuck Ferree
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOLOCAUST - WHAT HAPPENED?
The World War II was the biggest orgy of killing ever experienced by mankind: 15 million combatants died in battles, 18 millions of civilians died as a result of the war, 11.5 million of people were exterminated by the Germans (five million Christians and 6.5 million Jews). In addition to the material losses in destroyed buildings, factories, there were immeasurable pain and sufferance of millions of people.
But regardless to the destruction and sufferings experienced by all people, the Jews as a group suffered the most. 6.5 million Jews perished in the Holocaust, the bulk of the European Jewry. Before the War Europe was the home to 9 million of Jews, and at the war the European Jewry was reduced to about 3 millions.
Holocaust Losses by Countries
Country Pre-War 1939/ After -War 1945/ Survival Rate/ Remarks
Poland 3,250,000 50,000 1.5% 250,000 that survived in Russia are excluded
Russia 2,100,000 600,000 28% -
Rumania 800,000 430,000 53% -
Hungary 400,000 200,000 50% -
Czechoslovakia 315,000 44,000 14% -
France 350,000 275,000 78% Including foreign refugees
Germany 240,000 80,000 33% -
Netherlands 140,000 20,000 15% -
Italy 50,000 33,000 66% -
Yugoslavia 75000 12,0 14% -
Those are the dry figures, they do not represent the un-imaginable amount of human sufferance, starvation, tragedies. Six million of Jews were annihilated within a short period of 5 years. Most of the of the people were killed on the territory of Poland. The infamous death camps Auschwitz, Treblinka, Belzec, Majdanek, Sobibor, Birkenau were all located in Poland. Even from those rough figures it is possible to see that the Polish Jewry had the worst fate. Over 3 million Polish Jews were killed. The average survival rated in the small towns of Poland averaged 1%, out of 100 people 1 person survived.
Within a short period of a 18 months, the Death Factories processed the following number of victims:
German Death Factories Death Camp Number of Victims
Auschwitz 2,000,000
Belzec 850,000
Sobibor 250,000
Treblinka 700,000
Chelmno 300,000
Country Military/ Civilian/ Total
Soviet Union* 8,668,000 16,900,000 25,568,000
China 1,324,000 10,000,000 11,324,000
Germany 3,250,000 3,810,000 7,060,000
Poland 850,000 6,000,000 6,850,000
Japan 1,506,000 300,000 1,806,000
Yugoslavia 300,000 1,400,000 1,700,000
Rumania* 520,000 465,000 985,000
France* 340,000 470,000 810,000
Hungary* 750,000
Austria 380,000 145,000 525,000
Greece* 520,000
Italy 330,000 80,000 410,000
Czechoslovakia 400,000
Great Britain 326,000 62,000 388,000
USA 295,000 295,000
Holland 14,000 236,000 250,000
Belgium 10,000 75,000 85,000
Finland 79,000 79,000
Canada 42,000 42,000
India 36,000 *** 36,000
Australia 29,000 29,000
Spain** 12,000 10,000 22,000
Bulgaria 19,000 2,000 21,000
New Zealand 12,000 12,000
South Africa 9,000 9,000
Norway 5,000 5,000
Denmark 4,000 4,000
Total circa 61 Million
The victims of the Holocaust: an estimation...
This estimated number is given by Martin Gilbert in his excellent book "Atlas of the Holocaust". It represents the authentic (analysis) total of Jews exterminated between September 1th, 1939 and May 8th, 1945. The total of the Jewish victims is just over 5,750,000 and is based on such country by country and region by region records as survive.
Such a total, however, can never be complete. Thousands of infants and babies were murdered, by the Nazi killing squads in the autumn of 1941, for example, before their birth could be recorded for any 'statistical' purpose. Thousands more individuals, especially in the remoter villages of Poland were 'added' to the deportation trains which left larger localities, without any numerical register being made of their existence or fate.
In fact, this total is a strict minimum. It does not include the many thousands of political opponents executed in the camps, the hundreds of thousands of Russian POW's, and all the forgotten minorities: gypsies, homosexuals, etc. Accurate numbers for exactly how many humans died as a result of the Nazi plans are simply not available and never will be.
Research by some of the worlds most able historians place the number of Holocaust victims murdered by German government policy to be not less than twelve million and probably more.
Some of the figures included in this list are extremly accurate. These numbers are coming from the extermination groups themselves. They are extracted from written reports sent to Berlin by the chiefs of the Einsatzgruppen, and other internal German sources.
Just a last comment. These last years some historians and or revisionists have changed the estimated number of Jews killed during the Holocaust from 6 million to 2.5 million. This new estimation is based on the fact that Soviet historians may have inflated the number of Soviet victims for political reasons. Some revisionists or deniers are using this new estimated number of victims in order to minimize the Holocaust or even to deny its reality. Even with different estimates and keep in mnd, they are estimates, the Holocaust took the lives of millions of innocent people. Even if this new estimation is accurate, which it may not be, the question still must be asked; is the extermination of 2.5 million innocent victims more justifiable than the extermination of 6 million people? And even if there were "only"100,000 or 10,000 or 1,000 victims, this number does not justify the horror of the Nazi's extermination policy. The deniers are just trying to make banal the murder of millions of innocent people by German government policy.
Vincent Châtel and Chuck Ferree
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOLOCAUST - WHAT HAPPENED?
The World War II was the biggest orgy of killing ever experienced by mankind: 15 million combatants died in battles, 18 millions of civilians died as a result of the war, 11.5 million of people were exterminated by the Germans (five million Christians and 6.5 million Jews). In addition to the material losses in destroyed buildings, factories, there were immeasurable pain and sufferance of millions of people.
But regardless to the destruction and sufferings experienced by all people, the Jews as a group suffered the most. 6.5 million Jews perished in the Holocaust, the bulk of the European Jewry. Before the War Europe was the home to 9 million of Jews, and at the war the European Jewry was reduced to about 3 millions.
Holocaust Losses by Countries
Country Pre-War 1939/ After -War 1945/ Survival Rate/ Remarks
Poland 3,250,000 50,000 1.5% 250,000 that survived in Russia are excluded
Russia 2,100,000 600,000 28% -
Rumania 800,000 430,000 53% -
Hungary 400,000 200,000 50% -
Czechoslovakia 315,000 44,000 14% -
France 350,000 275,000 78% Including foreign refugees
Germany 240,000 80,000 33% -
Netherlands 140,000 20,000 15% -
Italy 50,000 33,000 66% -
Yugoslavia 75000 12,0 14% -
Those are the dry figures, they do not represent the un-imaginable amount of human sufferance, starvation, tragedies. Six million of Jews were annihilated within a short period of 5 years. Most of the of the people were killed on the territory of Poland. The infamous death camps Auschwitz, Treblinka, Belzec, Majdanek, Sobibor, Birkenau were all located in Poland. Even from those rough figures it is possible to see that the Polish Jewry had the worst fate. Over 3 million Polish Jews were killed. The average survival rated in the small towns of Poland averaged 1%, out of 100 people 1 person survived.
Within a short period of a 18 months, the Death Factories processed the following number of victims:
German Death Factories Death Camp Number of Victims
Auschwitz 2,000,000
Belzec 850,000
Sobibor 250,000
Treblinka 700,000
Chelmno 300,000
Backing Hitler
Consent and Coercion in Nazi Germany
ROBERT GELLATELY
A disturbing look at the true extent to which ordinary Germans knew about the Gestapo and the death camps
Debate still rages over how much ordinary Germans knew about the concentration camps and the Gestapo's activities during Hitler's reign. Now, in this well-documented and provocative volume, historian Robert Gellately argues that the majority of German citizens had quite a clear picture of the extent of Nazi atrocities, and continued to support the Reich to the bitter end.
Culling chilling evidence from primary news sources and citing dozens of case studies, Gellately shows how media reports and press stories were an essential dimension of Hitler's popular dictatorship. Indeed, a vast array of material on the concentration camps, the violent campaigns against social outsiders, and the Nazis' radical approaches to "law and order" was published in the media of the day, and was widely read by a highly literate population of Germans. Hitler, Gellately reveals, did not try to hide the existence of the Gestapo or of concentration camps. Nor did the Nazis try to cow the people into submission. Instead they set out to win converts by building on popular images, cherished ideals, and long-held phobias. And their efforts succeeded, Gellately concludes, for the Gestapo's monstrous success was due, in large part, to ordinary German citizens who singled out suspected "enemies" in their midst, reporting their suspicions and allegations freely and in a spirit of cooperation and patriotism.
Extensively documented, highly readable and illustrated with never-before-published photographs, Backing Hitler convincingly debunks the myth that Nazi atrocities were carried out in secret. From the rise of the Third Reich well into the final, desperate months of the war, the destruction of innocent lives was inextricably linked to the will of the German people.
"Books on the Holocaust and Nazism now number in the tens of thousands. Of that vast library, a handful of texts should be deemed essential reading for any serious student of the bloody and pathetic 20th century. Robert Gellately's Backing Hitler is among them."--Washington Post Book World
"Readers will notice that Gellately offers a far more sophisticated argument and more abundant evidence than Daniel Goldhagen's cause celebre, 'Hitler's Willing Executioners.' In truth, Gellately's work is what Goldhagen's book could have been, but wasn't; that is, a closely reasoned and tightly constructed analysis."--Publishers Weekly
"In this original and outstanding book, Gellately uses a wealth of new source materials, including the daily press, to examine the public face of the Nazi 'law and order' dictatorship, in the process contributing much to our understanding of the extent to which it basked in social consensus.... This is a genuinely important book which deserves the widest possible readership."--Michael Burleigh, Washington and Lee University
"Superbly researched and convincingly argued, this path breaking study demonstrates that most Germans supported Hitler throughout the Nazi regime.... A crucial contribution to our understanding of the relationship between consent and coercion in modern dictatorship."--Omer Bartov, Brown University
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Gellately is the Strassler Professor in Holocaust History at Clark University, and is the author of The Gestapo and German Society: Enforcing Racial Policy 1933-1945. He lives in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts.
http://www.oup-usa.org/isbn/0192802917.html
Consent and Coercion in Nazi Germany
ROBERT GELLATELY
A disturbing look at the true extent to which ordinary Germans knew about the Gestapo and the death camps
Debate still rages over how much ordinary Germans knew about the concentration camps and the Gestapo's activities during Hitler's reign. Now, in this well-documented and provocative volume, historian Robert Gellately argues that the majority of German citizens had quite a clear picture of the extent of Nazi atrocities, and continued to support the Reich to the bitter end.
Culling chilling evidence from primary news sources and citing dozens of case studies, Gellately shows how media reports and press stories were an essential dimension of Hitler's popular dictatorship. Indeed, a vast array of material on the concentration camps, the violent campaigns against social outsiders, and the Nazis' radical approaches to "law and order" was published in the media of the day, and was widely read by a highly literate population of Germans. Hitler, Gellately reveals, did not try to hide the existence of the Gestapo or of concentration camps. Nor did the Nazis try to cow the people into submission. Instead they set out to win converts by building on popular images, cherished ideals, and long-held phobias. And their efforts succeeded, Gellately concludes, for the Gestapo's monstrous success was due, in large part, to ordinary German citizens who singled out suspected "enemies" in their midst, reporting their suspicions and allegations freely and in a spirit of cooperation and patriotism.
Extensively documented, highly readable and illustrated with never-before-published photographs, Backing Hitler convincingly debunks the myth that Nazi atrocities were carried out in secret. From the rise of the Third Reich well into the final, desperate months of the war, the destruction of innocent lives was inextricably linked to the will of the German people.
"Books on the Holocaust and Nazism now number in the tens of thousands. Of that vast library, a handful of texts should be deemed essential reading for any serious student of the bloody and pathetic 20th century. Robert Gellately's Backing Hitler is among them."--Washington Post Book World
"Readers will notice that Gellately offers a far more sophisticated argument and more abundant evidence than Daniel Goldhagen's cause celebre, 'Hitler's Willing Executioners.' In truth, Gellately's work is what Goldhagen's book could have been, but wasn't; that is, a closely reasoned and tightly constructed analysis."--Publishers Weekly
"In this original and outstanding book, Gellately uses a wealth of new source materials, including the daily press, to examine the public face of the Nazi 'law and order' dictatorship, in the process contributing much to our understanding of the extent to which it basked in social consensus.... This is a genuinely important book which deserves the widest possible readership."--Michael Burleigh, Washington and Lee University
"Superbly researched and convincingly argued, this path breaking study demonstrates that most Germans supported Hitler throughout the Nazi regime.... A crucial contribution to our understanding of the relationship between consent and coercion in modern dictatorship."--Omer Bartov, Brown University
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Gellately is the Strassler Professor in Holocaust History at Clark University, and is the author of The Gestapo and German Society: Enforcing Racial Policy 1933-1945. He lives in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts.
http://www.oup-usa.org/isbn/0192802917.html
well maybe when iraqis killed our soldiers they wanted to prove that they could do some damage to the usa.
the bottom line is, both sides wanted to prove what they had done.
when iraqis showed our dead soldiers on tv, americans were upset and disgusted by the pictures. some anti-americans probably celebrated.
when it was speculated that the usa would show pictures of saddam's sons, many americans were glad they were dead wanted to see them. just as some iraqis probably wanted to see dead american soldiers.
it's a pathetic double standard. i say this as an american and i'm not trying to defend saddam. it's just pathetic when people are hypocrites and don't even realize it.
The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter, given in full below. Following are highlights.
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."
Ami Isseroff
Hamas charter in full:
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."
Ami Isseroff
Hamas charter in full:
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
The principles of the PNAC are stated here:
Statement of Principles
June 3, 1997
American foreign and defense policy is adrift. Conservatives have criticized the incoherent policies of the Clinton Administration. They have also resisted isolationist impulses from within their own ranks. But conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century.
We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership.
As the 20th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the world's preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievements of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests?
We are in danger of squandering the opportunity and failing the challenge. We are living off the capital -- both the military investments and the foreign policy achievements -- built up by past administrations. Cuts in foreign affairs and defense spending, inattention to the tools of statecraft, and inconstant leadership are making it increasingly difficult to sustain American influence around the world. And the promise of short-term commercial benefits threatens to override strategic considerations. As a consequence, we are jeopardizing the nation's ability to meet present threats and to deal with potentially greater challenges that lie ahead.
We seem to have forgotten the essential elements of the Reagan Administration's success: a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States' global responsibilities.
Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.
Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences:
⢠we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;
⢠we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;
⢠we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;
⢠we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.
Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.
Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz ... (aka Freddie N.)
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm