Don't Put Your Eggs Into One B -
- Thread starter Nobert
- Start date
I have multiple accounts for various
reasons that I don't care to specify.
IMO people should definitely have
more than one account.
We are based in the USA, and we have two accounts: Schwab and e*Trade.
For many, many years, we had only the Schwab account. It was originally a small firm called optionsXpress. They were acquired by Schwab about six years ago.
And for many years, the total value of the account was such that it did not really make sense to have a second account. If we had opened a second account, it would have been only a backup, i.e., it would be there ready and active if something happened to the main account. But it would only have had a couple hundred dollars or so, because we needed all our capital in one account in order to use the strategies we want (e.g., buying stock on margin, selling naked short calls, etc.).
Now we have enough capital that we can maintain two accounts. During 2020 we had some really bad experiences with Schwab's website and their customer service. So we wanted an alternative. But it wasn't quite bad enough to close the account.
Then just last month, I found that in the e*Trade account, we were unable to place an order for a particular issue of preferred stock. We got a message saying the order could not be placed online, and that we should call. My partner made the phone call, and they were still unable to place the order. I wan't on the call, and I don't know the details.
It was a small order. 50 shares of a $25 stock. Instead of trying to escalate the matter through e*Trade representatives, it was easier to just place the order in the Schwab account, where it went through without any trouble.
Today it appears that e*Trade can now accept and process orders for the stock. But when placing the order, there is a warning message that the dividend rate of the preferred shares is tied to the LIBOR rate. And LIBOR is getting phased out in a few months. The message warns that "the industry transition away from LIBOR could adversely affect the value, dividends, or return on this security."
So my theory is that e*Trade's compliance team halted orders for this particular issue until they could get that warning message into the system. But it wasn't just a day or two that we couldn't place the order. It felt like it was blocked for a week or more, which seems like a long time to address such a minor issue.
Maybe it's actually a significant issue, but it's not something that e*Trade has control of, so they certainly don't have any liability for it, other than... I dunno, maybe some ethical duty to warn their customers, which is the purpose of the warning message. But why were orders blocked for so long?
The message directs you to another page with more detailed information about the transition away from LIBOR, where it warns that
Depending on how a fallback provision is written, it may not be favorable to investors. Some provisions, for example, particularly in older documentation, do not contemplate alternative reference rates like SOFR. Instead, you might find that a fallback provision provides that the interest rate for a security revert to the LIBOR rate of the prior interest period. When LIBOR is discontinued, this would have the effect of converting the interest rate of the security from floating to fixed.
So, anyway, yeah, we have two accounts LOL
For those that are curious about this issue--which almost certainly affects many different preferred shares--here's the link to the e*Trade page explaining the LIBOR transition:
https://us.etrade.com/e/t/estation/pricing?id=29110000
The preferred stock in question was FHN.PR.C
For many, many years, we had only the Schwab account. It was originally a small firm called optionsXpress. They were acquired by Schwab about six years ago.
And for many years, the total value of the account was such that it did not really make sense to have a second account. If we had opened a second account, it would have been only a backup, i.e., it would be there ready and active if something happened to the main account. But it would only have had a couple hundred dollars or so, because we needed all our capital in one account in order to use the strategies we want (e.g., buying stock on margin, selling naked short calls, etc.).
Now we have enough capital that we can maintain two accounts. During 2020 we had some really bad experiences with Schwab's website and their customer service. So we wanted an alternative. But it wasn't quite bad enough to close the account.
Then just last month, I found that in the e*Trade account, we were unable to place an order for a particular issue of preferred stock. We got a message saying the order could not be placed online, and that we should call. My partner made the phone call, and they were still unable to place the order. I wan't on the call, and I don't know the details.
It was a small order. 50 shares of a $25 stock. Instead of trying to escalate the matter through e*Trade representatives, it was easier to just place the order in the Schwab account, where it went through without any trouble.
Today it appears that e*Trade can now accept and process orders for the stock. But when placing the order, there is a warning message that the dividend rate of the preferred shares is tied to the LIBOR rate. And LIBOR is getting phased out in a few months. The message warns that "the industry transition away from LIBOR could adversely affect the value, dividends, or return on this security."
So my theory is that e*Trade's compliance team halted orders for this particular issue until they could get that warning message into the system. But it wasn't just a day or two that we couldn't place the order. It felt like it was blocked for a week or more, which seems like a long time to address such a minor issue.
Maybe it's actually a significant issue, but it's not something that e*Trade has control of, so they certainly don't have any liability for it, other than... I dunno, maybe some ethical duty to warn their customers, which is the purpose of the warning message. But why were orders blocked for so long?
The message directs you to another page with more detailed information about the transition away from LIBOR, where it warns that
Depending on how a fallback provision is written, it may not be favorable to investors. Some provisions, for example, particularly in older documentation, do not contemplate alternative reference rates like SOFR. Instead, you might find that a fallback provision provides that the interest rate for a security revert to the LIBOR rate of the prior interest period. When LIBOR is discontinued, this would have the effect of converting the interest rate of the security from floating to fixed.
So, anyway, yeah, we have two accounts LOL
For those that are curious about this issue--which almost certainly affects many different preferred shares--here's the link to the e*Trade page explaining the LIBOR transition:
https://us.etrade.com/e/t/estation/pricing?id=29110000
The preferred stock in question was FHN.PR.C
Last edited:
Same reason cars carry spare tire.
Not to nitpick, but your poll choices are a bit confusing. If someone has 2 brokers, should they pick option B or option C?
Maybe ask a mod to change option C to read "3 or more". ;-)
Amen.
I am working in the night shift. Sleepless person is equal to a drunk one. (Studies ,,revealed")
Consequences, you just noticed.
Thanks.
Although, when i do get some sleep, away from stupid nightmares, i ,,lose" sleep over being stuck with single broker for some stupid reason.
Like if i forgot to fill some old tax form or whatever, and the account was frozen, or even better, ,,confiscated".
We have two checking accounts at two different banks. And multiple credit cards. 'Cause you never know when one of them is not going to work for some unpredictable reason...
But y'know, cards and ATMs will not work during the zombie apocalypse. So you need to have lots of cash in a safe in your basement, right next to your collection of AR-15s.
But wait a minute. Cash will be worthless, because eight months after the zombie apocalypse begins, the US government will collapse. So fiat currency will be useless. So you gotta have crypto if you wanna survive.
But how will anyone use crypto if there is no electricity, no internet, and no computers during the zombie apocalypse??
So you need gold.
So I have a large brick of gold that at one time was worth about $32,000. But now that fiat currency is worthless, how do you measure its value? Is it worth 16,000 avocados or something? Or 300,000 rounds for my AR-15?
And what if only need about 400 rounds? How do I break down my brick of gold? I mean, like, how the f**k do you make change during the zombie apocalypse?
But y'know, cards and ATMs will not work during the zombie apocalypse. So you need to have lots of cash in a safe in your basement, right next to your collection of AR-15s.
But wait a minute. Cash will be worthless, because eight months after the zombie apocalypse begins, the US government will collapse. So fiat currency will be useless. So you gotta have crypto if you wanna survive.
But how will anyone use crypto if there is no electricity, no internet, and no computers during the zombie apocalypse??
So you need gold.
So I have a large brick of gold that at one time was worth about $32,000. But now that fiat currency is worthless, how do you measure its value? Is it worth 16,000 avocados or something? Or 300,000 rounds for my AR-15?
And what if only need about 400 rounds? How do I break down my brick of gold? I mean, like, how the f**k do you make change during the zombie apocalypse?