Don's Openings, Part 6 2003
- Thread starter Don Bright
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Boy, now we're really grasping for straws.... We have our 001 (non "Bright') trader still trading with us since 1992, and a few others with 10 years under their belt...and of course many were professional traders already...in fact, we had most professionals come from the trading floors....and how is this relevant to anything....but, again, thanks for giving me the opportunity to help my Firm.....
Let's focus our negative energy on the geopolitcal situation and our troops for a bit, shall we?? Or, at least, post your questions to all Firms....that would be constructive.....all you have to do is find a way to contact the others.....
Back to work....
Don
Again, Don, your techniques to deflect criticism don't work. Get all of your employees to join the fight, if you think that helps.
But, I do laugh at the predictability of your responses and defense mechanisms.
So, to the point.
When you used the statement: "We have our original traders from 10 years ago...."
In truth, in fact, you have a single solitary trader who is not named Bright or in a partnership in some capacity, right?
Why did you even bring it up in the first place? To create the impression that Bright Traders, not including Don and Bob (and should also not include Van Alstyne or Eddie Franco in my opinion) are many and representative of the potential success of new traders who may come to Bright.
It is another example of hype through half truths. They use those techniques in selling cars.
Then, I do recall you were a car salesman before you came to Bright Trading, right? Now that would explain your marketing methods.
Shall we now address this:
"...and a few others with 10 years under their belt."
A few? Gee, it is so hard to be specific, isn't it. So what if they have 10 years of trading experience BEFORE Bright Trading? What does that have to do with the prospect of a new trader having greater success with your firm than another firm?
Is it possible to even turn off the marketing machine that is constantly churning in your head?
Don, who exactly would know where stop orders sit and is directing the stock up or down to trigger them...the specialist? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the specialist could not establish new, or at least consecutive, plus or minus ticks.
Also, with your "stop winners"/no stop loss theory, aren't you reversing a classic and accepted trading principle... cut your losses and let your profits run?
Also, with your "stop winners"/no stop loss theory, aren't you reversing a classic and accepted trading principle... cut your losses and let your profits run?
OK: First of all, "Stop Orders" are simply "triggers" and not guranteed price fills. And, yes the Specialist is responsible for the "fair and orderly" execution of these stop orders. What happens during the day is this. A broker may come into the specialist with 100,000 shares for sale, and will negotiate a single price where he can fill the order, so the Specialist will check his book for orders, and give the best price he can (knowing full well that he can "participate" (not initiate) in the order at that lower, negotiated price. And, of course the stop orders will get filled as well.
The "stop winner" is not really a stop at all...but merely a price to exit if the stock moves quickly and then turns around....if the stock moves slowly to your order, you can always move it a few cents....to increase your profitability.
BTW, not sure that stop orders have ever been classic and accepted principle...at least not by the floor traders and most professionals. More of an investing tool for those who cannot watch the markets themselves.
Hope this helps...
Don
Don, I fear you're not expressing yourself well with regard to stop orders. One might infer, from your example of the broker with 100,000 shares to sell, that stop loss orders on the buy side of a specialists' book are buy orders that will get filled at the lower, negotiated price. In reality, that order is a sell order that gets triggered when the stock hits the price of the stop. It then becomes a market order to sell which the specialist can buy, if he chooses, at the price of the stop limit or lower. This is opposed to other small BIDS that the specialist, if he is truly fair, might pull off the book and give the lower price to on the 100K print.
My point about the specialist, as far as I know, not being permitted to create or "initiate" (consecutive?) plus or minus ticks means that he, by himself, can't really "target" stop orders left on his book as you suggest. In other words he's prohibited from hitting several, consecutive small bids and "walking" the stock down to a level where a sell stop order of 5000 shares sits, trigger the stop, and buy the 5000 down another half-point, if no other bids are around. (In the real world does the specialist have ways to get around this? I'm sure they do because we know how most of them put maintaining a "fair and orderly" market ahead of profits!)
One other thing. I didn't say stop orders were a classic and accepted trading principle. I said "cutting losses and letting profits run" was. I would suggest that your strategy of 'stop winners", not that it has no merit, flies in the face of that and contradicts your own words from past threads; "once your in the trade look for good exit points; NO PRE-DETERMINED ONES".
My point about the specialist, as far as I know, not being permitted to create or "initiate" (consecutive?) plus or minus ticks means that he, by himself, can't really "target" stop orders left on his book as you suggest. In other words he's prohibited from hitting several, consecutive small bids and "walking" the stock down to a level where a sell stop order of 5000 shares sits, trigger the stop, and buy the 5000 down another half-point, if no other bids are around. (In the real world does the specialist have ways to get around this? I'm sure they do because we know how most of them put maintaining a "fair and orderly" market ahead of profits!)
One other thing. I didn't say stop orders were a classic and accepted trading principle. I said "cutting losses and letting profits run" was. I would suggest that your strategy of 'stop winners", not that it has no merit, flies in the face of that and contradicts your own words from past threads; "once your in the trade look for good exit points; NO PRE-DETERMINED ONES".
I apologize if I didn't express myself correctly....the stop orders mentioned first were, of course, sell stops...that got filled at a lower negotiated price (which generally comes back up, thus the term "trade through").
As far as the broker with a large order, of course he could hit several smaller bids (with the blind risk of running the stock down 4 points), or negotiate a single price down only a dollar or so...we see this every day.
Re: Specialists and the "fair and orderly market" vs. "profits"....If you think about it, they certainly aren't going to risk the very profitable business to screw somebody out of a couple thousand shares (I know it seems like it at times, but they really don't).
Re: "classic and accepted" - I thought I was quoting, but perhaps I mis-read.
We "let profits run" but also, "capture profits" on a consistent basis....again, part of the "art" of trading.....
Good discussion...!!
Don
20 fills,
14 winners,
6 losers
3 cent loss
well, it WAS going well this morning,
Then one of my $30 stocks went 48 cents against me in ONE TICK.
Talked with Don and he told me about watching the Pre-opening Indicators. If I had, I wouldn't have had that stock to begin with. So, now I'm going to work that into my program.
14 winners,
6 losers
3 cent loss
well, it WAS going well this morning,
Then one of my $30 stocks went 48 cents against me in ONE TICK.
Talked with Don and he told me about watching the Pre-opening Indicators. If I had, I wouldn't have had that stock to begin with. So, now I'm going to work that into my program.
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