u guys always use lmt orders and place a huge numbers of them hoping for a few to get filled am i right? recently i am playing with opg as well but always send mkt and always get filled with price improvement...why u use lmt knowing full well u aint gonna get filled on most of your positions...use mkt and u can be more selective and precise or am i missing something here...
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Don's Openings and More for 2006
- Thread starter Don Bright
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Quote from Bitstream:
u guys always use lmt orders and place a huge numbers of them hoping for a few to get filled am i right? recently i am playing with opg as well but always send mkt and always get filled with price improvement...why u use lmt knowing full well u aint gonna get filled on most of your positions...use mkt and u can be more selective and precise or am i missing something here...
How do you get price improvement if you send mkt? Improvement over what? You never specified a price to improve on.
Quote from Bitstream:
sorry, i meant that as soon as mkt opens and i get a fill i am already ahead a few cents.
You can still do that after your OPG order does or doesn't fill if you want.
But you're assuming that the price moves further against you after the opening print. This is not always the case.
Quote from Shreddog:
You can still do that after your OPG order does or doesn't fill if you want.
But you're assuming that the price moves further against you after the opening print. This is not always the case.
sorry but i dont understand u; i meant that when the market opens and my order gets filled i am not down the spread and commissions as in any orders i usually send during the day if i dont get price improvement, infact 'till now almost every time my pnl is already up off the fill. what do u mean u can still do that? change to market? i didnt make the assumption price was moving further against me after the op.
edit; u are not implying u bank all your gains off price improvement over the op or are u?
Quote from Bitstream:
sorry but i dont understand u; i meant that when the market opens and my order gets filled i am not down the spread and commissions as in any orders i usually send during the day if i dont get price improvement, infact 'till now almost every time my pnl is already up off the fill. what do u mean u can still do that? change to market? i didnt make the assumption price was moving further against me after the op.
edit; u are not implying u bank all your gains off price improvement over the op or are u?
Are you talking about using market orders for getting out of positions you got from an OPG order filling vs Don's "slingshot" orders? I thought you were talking about using mkt orders for some sort of entry.
No reason you can't do that but sometimes it takes more than 30 seconds for a stock to go your way.
I personally wouldn't do it, what if the specialist gaps the stock another 20+ cents against you after the opening print? It happens. In this case you just closed out with that print and really got nailed.
yes i was talking about market orders used as entry and routed before the mkt opens. i just wanted to know your case for using lmt orders instead of mkt for opg.
Quote from Shreddog:
Are you talking about using market orders for getting out of positions you got from an OPG order filling vs Don's "slingshot" orders? I thought you were talking about using mkt orders for some sort of entry.
No reason you can't do that but sometimes it takes more than 30 seconds for a stock to go your way.
I personally wouldn't do it, what if the specialist gaps the stock another 20+ cents against you after the opening print? It happens. In this case you just closed out with that print and really got nailed.
Quote from Bitstream:
yes i was talking about market orders used as entry and routed before the mkt opens. i just wanted to know your case for using lmt orders instead of mkt for opg.
Then what you describe makes no sense and I don't think you understand the strategy. In this strategy you are placing both buy and sell limit orders for each stock. This is impossible to do with market orders since they would just cancel each other out. If you are placing a single market order per stock you are making a bet on the direction of the stock before it opens which isn't part of this strategy.
And I'll go back to my orignal response as well. You claim you get price improvement, but price improvement over what? You haven't specified a limit price and there's no quoted bid or ask since the market hasn't opened yet. What exactly do you think you improved upon?
ahh allright, i thought u just went either short or long, didnt know u played both sides; then yeah of course it makes sense. i said it earlier that improvement may not have been the correct word, just that i am ahead off the fill, dunno if it is an improvement off the opening print since bid/ask may have already moved away from it.
Quote from Shreddog:
Then what you describe makes no sense and I don't think you understand the strategy. In this strategy you are placing both buy and sell limit orders for each stock. This is impossible to do with market orders since they would just cancel each other out. If you are placing a single market order per stock you are making a bet on the direction of the stock before it opens which isn't part of this strategy.
And I'll go back to my orignal response as well. You claim you get price improvement, but price improvement over what? You haven't specified a limit price and there's no quoted bid or ask since the market hasn't opened yet. What exactly do you think you improved upon?
Quote from Bitstream:
ahh allright, i thought u just went either short or long, didnt know u played both sides; then yeah of course it makes sense. i said it earlier that improvement may not have been the correct word, just that i am ahead off the fill, dunno if it is an improvement off the opening print since bid/ask can have already moved away from it.
Glad it makes sense now.
FYI, for this strategy price improvement is measured as the difference between your actual OPG fill and your limit price. Whether you are ahead immediately after the fill or not is irrelevant.
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