Don and Mav, Part Deux! (Live Chat)

Quote from Maverick74:

I don't have anything against pair trading and certainly did not condemn it on this thread. My problem was with buying PVN from 8.00 all the way down to 2.00 and saying it was a great trade after it recovered, taking a 75% drawdown in the process. That has nothing to do with pair trading. Not sure how all my posts are being misunderstood on this thread. I have stated this now about 10 times.
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Perhaps you should go back and read what I said.

I made no comment about anything you've said in this thread...all i said is that you've made generalisations about pair traders.

Would you like an example?

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...perpage=6&highlight=pair trading&pagenumber=6

Quote from Maverick74:


Don, do you agree or disagree with my analogy that pair trading has the same p&l profile of a naked put seller?
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If this is not a generalization, please tell me what is.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Jeff,

This conversation was pretty friendly between me and Don before one of his pitbulls got let out of the cage. LOL. I couldn't shake that thing off my leg. Don is actually one of the few people on here I can have serious conversations with over trading without someone's ego getting bruised and ad hominem attacks. I'm not worried about the Bears, they'll take care of business. :)
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When you are forced to attack the messenger, you have lost the argument. That's the take away here. Maverick had a problem with another trader implementing a very large, unleveraged trade that made 30 mm or so, and offered a risk reward ratio, on average, of greater then 2:1.

I love monday morning quarterbacks. So, here is your chance. Would you please enlighten us on how Bob should have traded that position?

Looking forward to your post. May I suggest you take some ritalin, sometimes you have problems focusing and keeping on point.

As for Da Bears...I'm happy to see them back in the show. Given their recent performance, I'd hedge your bet. They just squeaked by Seatle....and Don't forget the beating the took from the pack. Should be a good game.
 
Quote from GGSAE:

Perhaps you should go back and read what I said.

I made no comment about anything you've said in this thread...all i said is that you've made generalisations about pair traders.

Would you like an example?

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...perpage=6&highlight=pair trading&pagenumber=6



If this is not a generalization, please tell me what is.
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Mav spins more then a 90 pound, $20 hooker in Tiajuanna, let's see what he has to say.....Mav what say you? :D
 
Quote from GGSAE:

Perhaps you should go back and read what I said.

I made no comment about anything you've said in this thread...all i said is that you've made generalisations about pair traders.

Would you like an example?

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...perpage=6&highlight=pair trading&pagenumber=6



If this is not a generalization, please tell me what is.
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I was referring to this thread. This whole thread was about the PVN trade, not about pair trading. I did not make any references to pair trading on this thread. Of course I have discussed pair trading before on ET. Don and I have discussed it for years. He knows I don't like the strategy but he has done well with it and that is all that matters. I'm still waiting for someone to post a pair trading reference from THIS thread. Good luck.
 
Quote from mschey:

When you are forced to attack the messenger, you have lost the argument. That's the take away here. Maverick had a problem with another trader implementing a very large, unleveraged trade that made 30 mm or so, and offered a risk reward ratio, on average, of greater then 2:1.

I love monday morning quarterbacks. So, here is your chance. Would you please enlighten us on how Bob should have traded that position?

Looking forward to your post. May I suggest you take some ritalin, sometimes you have problems focusing and keeping on point.

As for Da Bears...I'm happy to see them back in the show. Given their recent performance, I'd hedge your bet. They just squeaked by Seatle....and Don't forget the beating the took from the pack. Should be a good game.
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Well Mike, here is a crazy idea, why not just get out of the trade? Oh right, that would be the disciplined approach. See Mike, I don't believe in turning short term trades into long term investments. I don't believe in staying in a position when the market is telling me I am wrong day after day. I don't believe in throwing good money after bad. I don't believe in rationalizing my bad trades because I can't pull the trigger to get out. How is that for how I would have handled that?

I'm sorry Mike, you are not going to convince many people here on ET it's OK to hold a position that has gone 75% against you!!!!!!!! Not going to happen. Go ahead, keep calling me names. You have the maturity level of a 5 year old. At least Don and I can talk about it like adults. Maybe you should stay out of this conversation and let the adults talk about it.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

Well Mike, here is a crazy idea, why not just get out of the trade? Oh right, that would be the disciplined approach.

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Yes I agree with the above comment. Get out no matter how deep your pockets are.

Good trading to all!
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heres 15 year chart and it might not have anything to do with the trade because it was way before it but I saw it and thought maybe somebody might want to see what can happen if you anticipate the market using triangles and don't wait for a breakout to be confirmed, it sure looks like it was on its way to an upside breakout, higher lows bouncing off a trendline, consolidated for a good long time after that 8.00 to 70.00 run up and wham down she goes



http://i18.tinypic.com/2m7aqli.gif
 
http://i14.tinypic.com/3y5emac.gif

here it is before the crash

riding a nice trendline , consolidating, bouncing off the center of the consolidation, 70-30=40 1/2 of 40 is 20 thats 50.00 the center line, had just bounced off it, if you had to guess which way it was going there was no reason to be negative, technically, I'm just saying watchout anticipating breakouts
 
I have nothing but respect for Bright Trading and Maverick-and no comment on any of their trades. They are successful, and share with us all an amazing amount. (Thanks-and thanks for the interesting chats which I downloaded...)

However, just wanted to make a comment on the previous poster's chart:
Hey Joe, where you goin' with that triangle in your chart?
Hey Joe, I said where you goin' with that triangle in your chart?
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For me, the chart you posted is a sell. Since I trade futures, I'd be holding open the possibility of that failing through a certain point and allowing me to quickly sell short. I quickly pasted onto a simple jpg and included some simple examples of common patterns where market moves up in a burst. You can see they are completely different.

Edit: I am also aware of the Ascending Triangle Pattern for stocks, but the chart of this stock is not sufficient for this pattern.
 

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