Doing virutal or actual trading could damage human brains?

[timbo]

Quote from HedgefundJim:

Quite frankly, the only way to remove the emotion is to experience the highest of the highs, and the lowest of lows so as to no longer fear or get a rush from either anymore.

In essence, to become a machine.

Same as any poker pro will tell you, if you get emotional, you shouldn't be playing.

My suggestion is IF you have your back-tested system solid, and IF you are capitalized enough to endure significant losses, only then are you able to give trading full time a try.

DO NOT FULL TIME TRADE if you are emotional and are trading with "rent" money, you will most definitely fail.

I do not want to be a pessimist, I am just speaking from experience, and don't want you to blow your savings on a "hunch."

Be absolutely sure, be well-capitalized, then go get 'em.

-Hedgefund Jim

Are you kin to riskfreetrading? I mean, it's the same bs.

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

Imo this is very old school: science is finding that there is no "giant shearing" of synaptic connections. Well, there is actually for those under 1) tremendous cortisol loads through such things as depression and post-traumatic stress disorder and 2) those with diabetes and other rather extreme conditions.

Oops, I wish I had footnoted my comments. the mind goes through many stages as a person grows. In childhood, there is a great deal of learning going on, for example. Brain based assessments are common and they provide a basis for comparison with other age groups.

The wonderful opportunity that children have compared to all other groups is made obvious by looking at the the relative number of connections among neurons. The number is 50% greater when children are compared to adults.

In between these two stages of life is the teenage period. This vast difference in cortical real estate is often untapped during early teenage and as a consequence something happens to get from the data levels of childhood to the levels of adulthood.

One of the main characteristics of adolescene in the brain which is very measurable and often is measured is the massive pruning back operation that goes on in the brain. For you this concept is old school and you are 45 or so. for most all people in the world this effect happens to them and it happens to every living being no matter where they live or what culture they live in.

Thus, I was not speaking of anything that was optional in going from one stage of life to another (a 50% reduction happens to everyone) nor was I speaking of a condition that some person might encounter as some sort of abnormality such as you mention. The biochemicals you mention are different than the ones you mention.

But the brain is incredibly plastic and so even where shearing occurs additional connections can be made from differing neuronal locations.

The value of this thread, if adding any is still possible, is the MAIN EVENT OF ALL TIME FOR ET. Most ET persons are post adelescence and they all have been sheared. They have moved to a point in life where there is a competitive neuroplasticity going on. A lot of these people are still in their 20's. The group ages, 30 through 50, is probably less common. I'm 75 and there aren't many traders at age 75.

Building the mind turns out to be the most important thing a traders does. As we see few people know anything about it. I tried to turn things around in this thread to begin to take a look at the mind and the steps of building the mind to become very very expert at a very simple extraction of capital process.

People who do not know how the mind works nor how to build it, very unfortunately cannot grasp the consequences of making mistakes in learning how to trade.

Making connections in the mind is very important to understand. The difficulty of severing mistakenly made connections is even more difficult.

If any single thing drives potential traders out of trading, it is the mind's utter rebellion at what the person is doing that is damaging to his mind. The shift in connections when a neuron becomes "long term memory" sensitized invloves a shift from 1300 to 2700 synaptically speaking. Try ungluing that after the effort made to get it glued.

Science has even found that older people can actually experience neurogenesis, i.e. they can grow new connections just like younger people but, of course, not at as rapid of a pace.

the creative mind work of people in the 20's is about the same as that of people in their 60's to 70's. Knowing why and how this is happening these ways is very important for a younger person to face and take into consideration.

It may become fairly evidence if a look is taken that there is a ladder involved and where one is on the mind building ladder is very very important. The mind has fire poles that are continually delivering neurons on a demand basis. As you point out the other terrific function with respect to the mind's parts list is to keep the parts operating for a loonger period rather than wrecking them when they have just arrived and are not performing optimally. Creating crosswiring all over the place is not something that prolongs the life of a part nor gets new parts in the right places.

So the thread fizzles out. That's the way it goes on ET.

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from HedgefundJim:

Quite frankly, the only way to remove the emotion is to experience the highest of the highs, and the lowest of lows so as to no longer fear or get a rush from either anymore.

In essence, to become a machine.

Same as any poker pro will tell you, if you get emotional, you shouldn't be playing.

My suggestion is IF you have your back-tested system solid, and IF you are capitalized enough to endure significant losses, only then are you able to give trading full time a try.

DO NOT FULL TIME TRADE if you are emotional and are trading with "rent" money, you will most definitely fail.

I do not want to be a pessimist, I am just speaking from experience, and don't want you to blow your savings on a "hunch."

Be absolutely sure, be well-capitalized, then go get 'em.

-Hedgefund Jim

Thx for the perspective. I'd never really thought about the emotional aspect of things believe it or not...

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from jack hershey:

So the thread fizzles out. That's the way it goes on ET.

They die out imo because you're a little too Zen-ish: most people are not going to respond, because they don't want to be called Grasshopper or Young Padawan.

What's so bad about being a Regular Joe like the rest of us?

There's traders on this site doing very well and they never come across as patronizing or moralizing.

Just something to think about...

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from ShoeshineBoy:

They die out imo because you're a little too Zen-ish: most people are not going to respond, because they don't want to be called Grasshopper or Young Padawan.

What's so bad about being a Regular Joe like the rest of us?

There's traders on this site doing very well and they never come across as patronizing or moralizing.

Just something to think about...

I'm sure your correct on all three points.

Most of the time I work on a set of books. They will probably not go very far either. It's fun though.

The thread title was screamingly funny to me..... I was hoping that some people might want to play with the other side of the coin, though..

Thanks for the comment.

 

[ehorn]

Jack, you have spoken briefly regarding Trading Plans and Business Plans and their importance. I was wondering if you would elaborate on them. In particular, what comprises a solid TP/BP, how are they constructed, how are they maintained and kept current, adjusted, etc... Any insight would be most appreciated.

P.S. I dont really mind being called Grasshopper or young Padawan either

 

[jack hershey]

Quote from ehorn:

Jack, you have spoken briefly regarding Trading Plans and Business Plans and their importance. I was wondering if you would elaborate on them. In particular, what comprises a solid TP/BP, how are they constructed, how are they maintained and kept current, adjusted, etc... Any insight would be most appreciated.

P.S. I dont really mind being called Grasshopper or young Padawan either

I don't know the reference to Padawan.. Palawan was the name of T. J. Watson's boat (A Class) out of Indian Harbor Yatch Club in Greenwich. He spent 350K tank testing it before having it built in Holland out of prime woods (clear Valspar paint to show it off). He had an all IBM crew out of World Headquarters. LOL

I recomend a fairly standard 12 part PB and within it is contained the TP. In "Building Minds for Bulding Wealth", v2.2 (Appendix B, pages 75 through 87) you see an outline that converts a std BP to a BP for trading as part of a family enterprise. I recommend about 22 financial instruments for the family to use and they are financed as expenses out of the gorss of trading. I look at life as seven stages and how they are integrated over three generations. So the 22 instruments are used in a timely manner either as an ongoing (mature family) or a start up operation. In the plan illustrated, there was an overlay for the value of money also that allows a person to see that true value is important in planning.

I remember in your e-mail you spoke of a separate threads for these two items. They are very important and just like there is no forum on how the mind works, these things have no forum and are really not part of ET at this point. I don't start threads and the moderators regard me as a lightening rod in a storm that attracts unwanted work for the web site.

The four domino's of success in trading hinge on knowing the mind, knowing how to learn, having a BP and within it having a TP. There is no place on the web that does this combo and when a place is not idiot proofed, there is so much crap in between what is salient. People like me are considered by management as a pain in the ass because we generate (via others) a lot of traffic, even some OCD's these days.

A couple of days ago rcanfiel now operating as traderzones absolutely fucked up a military guy's two threads by mentioning his fucked up ideas of me AND he showed he doesn't even know what Level 2 is as yet. Sp Lowe deserved a chance to learn to trade. Not under my wing, but under someone's wing that was supportive and honest. The fucking reality in communities all over the country there are suicide watch teams trying to head off people and their families who have been repeatedly put under service duty demands that are known to be unbearable. For some jerk to bullshit a serviceman is really out of order.

The psychology forum and the career trading forum are not the places that are well enough moderated to run threads on the mind or learning or BP's or TP's.

The key to a business plan is its capitalization in terms of the family. Part 2, after the intro, is where the funds requested are articulated. Since this capital has other intended potential uses, I would require it to be returned to the family after a set period of time to ameliorate the effect of its being temporarily removed. I also feel this part has to articulate all of the costs of family protection throughout the application of the plan. Protection from the public school system is one of those matters. No child can go through the hoops of substandard experiences, ever.

As one who has been on both sides of standard entrepreneurial business plans (creation and funding), I recognize the importance of the request for funds, the history of operations, the trading plan and the associated multistage P&L spreadsheet.

Today, the tue value of money has entered the picture like a permanent swinging of a sledge hammer. Weakening dollar is a fixture, resource scarcity is a fixture.

A trading plan has to reflect the how the capital extraction is going to be asymptotic to the offer stage by stage. It is never possible to cast a BP in stone butit is possible to articulate that check points are available and how testing is done at those check points. (See Stringer rebirthing Sony using Gerstner's bible for IBM ("Who Says Elephants Can't Dance")).

All the ingredients can be put on the table. Discussing how to fold each thing into each plan is easy to articulate.

I'm not up for a repeat of something like shoeshine saying X is old school and it doesn't happen. I don't feel like writing three or four paragraphs to take his ill chosen statement off the table. And I don't feel that annotating each sentence is appropriate in ET.

The facts are that a person has to have a pusiness plan. In that plan there has to be a trading plan (complete as possible). To be able to carry out a buiness with a trading plan, there has to be provision for learning knowledge and skills and incorporating all new trading opportunities. Knowing how to learn is a requirement. Today and from now on, things are going to require a neutral bias and no more denial and bullshitting one's self. Today and henceforth the opportunities will be increasing and obtaining them will be more difficult.

To learn and to do maintainence requires personal growth and that is a function of building the mind. To build the mind, you cannot bullshit yourself or others like rcanfiel and others like him do. Trading, in the final analysis requires a system and that system is founded on the trader and the market sharing responsibilities. People who engage in learning have to work with their minds thinking critically to understand how to take what is offered and when it is offered.

As a business plan's P&L is developed is is necessary to have a handel on the monthies for the next two years and quarteries for the next 3 years after that. The market offers and a neutral bias is required. Skills are continually acquired and capital grows and finds, in my opinion, three resting places: indexes; position trading and sector rotation.

The crossover of profession income compared to trading income happens very soon in the BP so there is zero pressure on learning to perform financially but there is a pressure to learn corectly in order to not drive yourself out on to a limb that precludes later growth. As you can see there are two dorections in this kind of process: out the exit (large percentage) and onward and upward (to the summits).

The squeeking along on 100K to 500K a year is a myth. This ends abruptly because the planning was done inductively. The myth that markets change is what ends induction, they say. Markets have a range of peformances. And a BP and TP take this into account using NO induction.

All financial growth rides on a curve. The curve shows the decline in value of currency. As 50 some years have passed I can tell you it is noticable and today at this time change is very significant.

I'm sure you have searched the topics and drawn a blank.

 

[ehorn]

Quote from jack hershey:

...The four domino's of success....

As you mention, unfortunately, the site is pretty sparse with related information and I struggled to find a suitable home (given the current topics) for a new post on inquiry into these important topics.

I agree with the high importance of the 4 cornerstones mentioned (knowing the mind, learning to learn, BP, TP). My initial focus has been solely on the first 2 and now it is time for me to understand the others in conjunction. I appreciate the ref to BMFBW and I will study that.

Thanks again for your insights Jack.

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from jack hershey:

Most of the time I work on a set of books. They will probably not go very far either. It's fun though.

How come you never blogged out of curiousity?

 

[ShoeshineBoy]

Quote from jack hershey:


I'm not up for a repeat of something like shoeshine saying X is old school and it doesn't happen. I don't feel like writing three or four paragraphs to take his ill chosen statement off the table. And I don't feel that annotating each sentence is appropriate in ET.

I think it was a semantics issue: you were talking of something more philosophical. I was just simply pointing out that the brain retains incredibly rebuilding capabilities even into the later years of a person's life.